# Any Signs of Long-Predicted Anti-Muslim "Backlash"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090 "2009-12-30T20:52:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/101 "2010-01-03T01:06:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Where is all this discrimination? Why do you keep changing the subject to avoid owning your silly claim that you cannot even acknowledge? Discrimination is not a big deal in the U.S. any more and I have explicitly said that in this thread. On the other hand, you have not provided a single example of Christians in the United States having demonstrated the political will to intervene against religious intolerance. The intervention against Serbia was not based on any religious intolerance displayed by the Serbs, but on a desire to prevent more genocide, (possibly in guilt over permitting the Rwandan massacres), that was based on political and cultural conflicts, not religious ones. It was also promoted by a rather irreligious president and chiefly opposed by the loudest self-professed Christians. Beyond that single misinterpreted event, you have provided nothing to support your claim while continuing to call on me to defend a position I have not asserted. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/102 "2010-01-03T01:24:49Z")
We never went to war with Serbia. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/103 "2010-01-03T01:37:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It was also promoted by a rather irreligious president and chiefly opposed by the loudest self-professed Christians. That’s a good point. The Christian political right in the US didn’t want anything to do with intervening in Serbia. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/104 "2010-01-03T02:41:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Why do you keep changing the subject to avoid owning your silly claim that you cannot even acknowledge? > > Discrimination is not a big deal in the U.S. any more and I have explicitly said that in this thread. I don’t understand how you can go from saying this without acknowledging it was a deliberate act. We are culturally a Christian nation going back to the Founding Fathers. The core of our constitution was written from the perspective of a neutral and free society and it was written at a time that was anything but neutral and free. It’s been an uphill battle but a battle it was. For all the Christian knuckle-dragging to slow the process it was ultimate a Christian society that arrived where we are today. Otherwise we would be stuck in witch-burning mode. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/105 "2010-01-03T03:28:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > For all the Christian knuckle-dragging to slow the process it was ultimate a Christian society that arrived where we are today. Otherwise we would be stuck in witch-burning mode. No, it was a society that, for all how badly contaminated by religion it still is, largely sidelined Christianity. Tolerance of any kind is in direct violation of the basic principles of Christianity. If this was still a “Christian society” in other than name, it would still “be stuck in witch-burning mode”. “Witch burning mode” is pretty much what Christianity is; it rose to the position is holds due to centuries of relentless intolerance and brutality. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/106 "2010-01-03T03:40:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And we have Christians protesting and trying to ban everything under the sun; from same sex marriage to abortion to evolution to Halloween. The idea that Christians aren’t trying to ram their beleifs down everyone else’s throats is a fantasy. Remember the furor over The Last Temptation of Christ. Or just try to put on a production of Corpous Christie anywhere in the Red States. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/107 "2010-01-03T04:32:48Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Remember the furor over The Last Temptation of Christ. I missed that. Were there riots around the world where people died? Any Fatwas declared? Do you think you can insult Christians and expect smiley faces and thank-yous? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/108 "2010-01-03T04:33:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, it was a society that, for all how badly contaminated by religion it still is, largely sidelined Christianity. Tolerance of any kind is in direct violation of the basic principles of Christianity. If this was still a “Christian society” in other than name, it would still “be stuck in witch-burning mode”. “Witch burning mode” is pretty much what Christianity is; it rose to the position is holds due to centuries of relentless intolerance and brutality. You’re such a hopeless romantic. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/109 "2010-01-03T04:49:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t understand how you can go from saying this without acknowledging it was a deliberate act. We are culturally a Christian nation going back to the Founding Fathers. The core of our constitution was written from the perspective of a neutral and free society and it was written at a time that was anything but neutral and free. It’s been an uphill battle but a battle it was. For all the Christian knuckle-dragging to slow the process it was ultimate a Christian society that arrived where we are today. Otherwise we would be stuck in witch-burning mode. I have not said that it was not deliberate. Why do you keep inventing positions for me while evading your own claim? On the other hand, it was mostly “deliberate” in the sense that the plurality of Christian groups reluctantly extended a measure of toleration for other groups solely so that they would not find themselves on the receiveing end of hostility when they found themselves outnumbered. Prior to the founding of the nation, Protestant groups launched military raids on Catholic groups to expel them from their land. Jews were prohibited from voting. Puritans taxed Baptists and taxed and outlawed Quakers. After the nation was founded, some of those special taxes remained in place. Protestants rioted against Catholics, burning neighborhoods and murdering people. Catholics organized their own militias for self-defense. When they got tired of that sort of aggression, they simply organized local political machines that prevented anyone of the wrong religion from holding office in specific locations. Mormons were forcibly evicted from their homes and threatened with death until they moved out of the country. When the country expanded to the Mormon region, violence flared again and there was the distinct possibility of warfare. The outright violence was scaled back only as groups recognized that their intended victims were sufficiently numerous and sufficiently armed to present a serious danger to their attackers. There was a deliberate effort to stamp out the indigenous religions that lasted well into the 1960s. Jews were admitted to the country, but never welcomed, and they were prevented from holding some offices or entering many colleges for years. A significant opposition to JFK’s election was based on his religion. (Heck, recently, Fundies blocked the appointment of the first Catholic priest to be Congressional chaplain.) Throughout that history, there were always some people of good will who did work toward tolerance, and eventually changes in lawmaking and court decisions began to favor toleration, but there has never been a case where there was a “will” of the people to intervene to project religious tolerance as you claimed. To the extent that there is religious toleration in this country, it originated in a fear of reprisals and only later became a matter of recognizing that hostility is a waste of time and effort, eventually smoothed out by the familiarity of pluralism. Now, I have not claimed that the religious discrimination that the country has seen is still a significant factor in day to day life; that is your straw man. I have only noted that, historically, your silly claim of a will to intervene in favor of religious tolerance has no basis in reality. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/110 "2010-01-03T04:55:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you think you can insult Christians and expect smiley faces and thank-yous? The Last Temptation of Christ was not an insult to Christians and implying that it was is more silliness. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/111 "2010-01-03T06:42:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I missed that. Were there riots around the world where people died? Any Fatwas declared? I don’t recall if they killed anyone over it; I wouldn’t be surprised. And you might as well stop harping on “fatwas”; naturally there were none, since that’s an Islamic term. You might as well try to claim that Islam is more tolerant than Catholicism by asking when was the last time the Islamic Pope condemned something. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/112 "2010-01-03T07:20:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t recall if they killed anyone over it; I wouldn’t be surprised. And you might as well stop harping on “fatwas”; naturally there were none, since that’s an Islamic term. You might as well try to claim that Islam is more tolerant than Catholicism by asking when was the last time the Islamic Pope condemned something. You had the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and all the loveliness from the Catholic Church of old. Now you get listed in a monthly magazine as a Christian ner-do-well if they don’t agree with something. Times they have a changed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/113 "2010-01-03T08:01:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You had the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and all the loveliness from the Catholic Church of old. Now you get listed in a monthly magazine as a Christian ner-do-well if they don’t agree with something. Or shot. Or stuck in a camp and tormented until you beg God’s forgiveness for being gay. Or otherwise treated brutally. The most important difference is that everyone will stand around loudly proclaiming that what happened doesn’t reflect on Christianity and that a few bad apples don’t spoil the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/114 "2010-01-03T08:45:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or shot. Or stuck in a camp and tormented until you beg God’s forgiveness for being gay. Or otherwise treated brutally. The most important difference is that everyone will stand around loudly proclaiming that what happened doesn’t reflect on Christianity and that a few bad apples don’t spoil the barrel. yah there’s a lot of that going around now :rolleyes:. Meanwhile, 5 years after a cartoon depicting Mohammad was published [they’re still trying to kill the cartoonist.](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581758,00.html?test=latestnews) I now return you to your hatred of America. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/115 "2010-01-03T08:48:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yah there’s a lot of that going around now :rolleyes:. Meanwhile, 5 years after a cartoon depicting Mohammad was published [they’re still trying to kill the cartoonist.](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581758,00.html?test=latestnews) And here, the Christians succeed in killing doctors. > [@Magiver](#): > > I now return you to your hatred of America. Oh, please. My insistence on pointing out that Christianity isn’t morally superior to Islam has nothing to do with my hatred for America. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/116 "2010-01-03T10:14:11Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] You had the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and all the loveliness from the Catholic Church of old. Now you get listed in a monthly magazine as a Christian ner-do-well if they don’t agree with something. Times they have a changed. [/quote] Here, [knock yourself out](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/117 "2010-01-04T02:47:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Here, [knock yourself out](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism). Oh thanks, I was unaware of any of that:rolleyes: I’ll remember that next time a random terrorist attack occurs somewhere on the planet in the name of Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/118 "2010-01-04T03:14:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Oh thanks, I was unaware of any of that:rolleyes: I’ll remember that next time a random terrorist attack occurs somewhere on the planet in the name of Jesus. So, when a guy blows himself up in the name of Jesus, it’s a random terrorist attack. When a guy blows himself up in the name of Allah, Islam at large is to blame, because those dastards meet up once a year and thus they’re all bondy, in a mixaphorical way. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/119 "2010-01-04T04:40:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So, when a guy blows himself up in the name of Jesus, it’s a random terrorist attack. When a guy blows himself up in the name of Allah, Islam at large is to blame, because those dastards meet up once a year and thus they’re all bondy, in a mixaphorical way. > Gotcha. That doesn’t make a lick of sense. I never said someone who blows themselves up in the name of Jesus is a random terrorist attack. You’re putting the horse before the cart. I said I’d remember your post the next time a random terrorist attack is done in the name of Jesus. What that implies is that there are random terrorist attacks done by people in the name of other prophets. If someone does it in the name of Jesus then their church is going to get ripped a new one. Fred Phelps is an obnoxious asshole but he is also full of hot air. The day he acts on his beliefs he and his church will be set upon by an angry mob. It’s not that I’m unaware of Christianities historic shortfalls, It’s just that I’m aware of the people who want to see my country destroyed. It’s not just a function of Muslims killing infidels. The same mindset applies to anyone who does not agree with their brand of Islam and it shows up in the violence in Iraq, the school bombings in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the state mandated misogyny of countries like Saudi Arabia AND the worldwide indiscriminate terrorist attacks of airplanes, hotels, embassys, restaurants, trains, shopping bazaars, Mosques, churches, and anything else that involves a nameless target. The common denominator is the religion of Islam. It is stuck on stupid and cannot seem to advance beyond the Dark Ages. Instead of one Pope causing chaos in a linear hierarchy you have a thousand Popes that are disconnected but at the same time united. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090/120 "2010-01-04T06:28:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That doesn’t make a lick of sense. I never said someone who blows themselves up in the name of Jesus is a random terrorist attack. You’re putting the horse before the cart. I said I’d remember your post the next time a random terrorist attack is done in the name of Jesus. What that implies is that there are random terrorist attacks done by people in the name of other prophets. If someone does it in the name of Jesus then their church is going to get ripped a new one. Fred Phelps is an obnoxious asshole but he is also full of hot air. The day he acts on his beliefs he and his church will be set upon by an angry mob. Nope. When a member of a fanatical Christian congregation goes out and shoots up an abortion clinic or beats a lesbian to death, his congregation is prompt to disavow his actions, because of course the priest is appalled and aghast that anyone could interpret his message of “kill the sinners” as literal rather than metaphorical ; meanwhile the mainstream churches trip over themselves in a rush in to state one should not judge the whole lot of them by the actions of one rotten apple. Then it’s time for American Idol, and all is forgotten. > [@](#): > > It’s not that I’m unaware of Christianities historic shortfalls, It’s just that I’m aware of the people who want to see my country destroyed. It’s not just a function of Muslims killing infidels. The same mindset applies to anyone who does not agree with their brand of Islam and it shows up in the violence in Iraq, the school bombings in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the state mandated misogyny of countries like Saudi Arabia AND the worldwide indiscriminate terrorist attacks of airplanes, hotels, embassys, restaurants, trains, shopping bazaars, Mosques, churches, and anything else that involves a nameless target. The common denominator is the religion of Islam. It is stuck on stupid and cannot seem to advance beyond the Dark Ages. Instead of one Pope causing chaos in a linear hierarchy you have a thousand Popes that are disconnected but at the same time united. Yes, yes I agree that the common denominator in “news stories of bad shit involving Muslims” is going to be that there are Muslims in 'em. On the other hand, were you to look at, for example : - the sum of countries and groups that bear ill will to the US (rightly or wrongly) - the sum of countries where women are discriminated against - all the various organisations that blow up or try to blow up airplanes, hotels, embassies, restaurants, trains, shopping bazaars, Mosques (why would Muslim terrorists blow up mosques ?), churches, synagogues and anything else for any number of reasons you would find the proportion of Muslim to non-Muslim pretty much maps with the population data. As **Der Trihs** already told you (in this thread or the other one on the subject, I don’t care enough to search), were Islam an evil, terrorist breeding religion bent on burning down the Holy United States, then considering there are hundreds of millions of Muslims out there, there should be tens of thousands of terrorists howling at the moon and vying for the privilege of blowing themselves up at the US borders right now. Only there aren’t. Just the few lone nuts every couple of years. _As as always been_. Finally, I have to admit to being mildly amused that you consider bombings in Afghanistan and Pakistan, violence in Iraq and misogyny in Saudi Arabia as testaments of a will to see \*your \*country destroyed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-signs-of-long-predicted-anti-muslim-backlash/523090.md?page=7)