# Any sport/game where the world champion from 50+ years ago could beat the current champ? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 21, 2015, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495 "2015-05-21T09:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/61 "2015-05-24T22:34:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Well thats my point. The physicality of the later decades was in response to the Brazilian game and Pele was susceptible to that. Ruthless physical contact was already becoming the norm by 1970, its relative absense in the WC of that year was the aberration. And players like Pele were susciptble as was shown in 1966. > > Also by Bertie Vogts in the 1974 Final. I still have to disagree with that. Football had always been much more physical before then. It was legal to charge down a goalkeeper and knock him into the net (McParland v Wood, F.A. Cup Final 1957, for instance). Also “The Battle of Highbury” back in the thirties, when England taught the Italian show ponies the art of good old-fashioned clogging. Brazil in 1974 were no angels either… ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/62 "2015-05-27T18:52:17Z")
Secretariat absolutely fits the criteria if animals are allowed. Despite advances in technology and training, despite the best efforts of actual selective breeding(!), Secretariat’s records for all three races of the Triple Crown still stand. In the [Kentucky Derby](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Usj3K4oZ0) he comes from dead last, running wide to pass the field and still setting the record despite covering more ground than necessary. He ran each quarter mile faster than the one before, accelerating throughout the race. In the [Preakness](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV89InWOENc) he again comes from dead last, runs wide on the turns and still sets the record. Then in the [Belmont](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V18ui3Rtjz4) Secretariat get the inside track and absolutely crushes the competition, which was thin because the winner was a foregone conclusion. The fastest 1.5 miles run on dirt by any horse before or since. Those videos are well worth watching despite the addition of a soundtrack- the call by the announcer is spectacular as well. The vet who performed his necropsy estimated that his heart weighed 22 pounds, nearly three times the size of an average horse’s heart. A true physical outlier. Why yes, I do have a bit of a horse-crush on Secretariat. Does it show? ---
**Author:** ![xonopa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ce7236/32.png) [@xonopa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xonopa)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/63 "2015-05-27T23:21:42Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The champion golfers of 50 years ago would have a decent chance of beating the best of today (given equivalent equipment) Gary Player won his first major in 1961, he’s 79 years old now and still plays a mean game, her in South Africa and all over the world - but despite having the very best equipment, he doesn’t do today what he used to! Still beats me to the ground though. ---
**Author:** ![jsquire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jsquire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsquire)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/64 "2015-05-28T01:23:57Z")
Randy Matson’s 1965 world record in the shot put was 21.52 meters (70’ 7¼" for you metric-phobes). That would be quite competitive today; it would have won a bronze medal at both the 2013 World Championships and 2012 Olympics, and wouldn’t have been terribly far off first place. Mason was up to 21.78m in 1967 and that will win nearly any major competition these days. However, it’s important to note that performance-enhancing drugs were totally legal until 1972 and they most certainly are not now. I’m not accusing Matson of anything, but use of steroids such as Deca Durabolin was pretty widespread among top throwers by the early 1960s. It’s a powerful drug, but also extremely easy to detect in tests. I’d also take Ralph Boston or his Soviet rival, Igor Ter-Ovanasyen, over any of today’s long jumpers. The distances they jumped are competitive with today’s jumpers, even with modern equipment and training, and both were tremendously consistent athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/65 "2015-05-28T06:11:47Z")
> [@xonopa](#): > > Gary Player won his first major in 1961, he’s 79 years old now and still plays a mean game, her in South Africa and all over the world - but despite having the very best equipment, he doesn’t do today what he used to! > > Still beats me to the ground though. Are you saying you have played with Gary Player?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/66 "2015-06-19T19:42:32Z")
I have stopped following basketball, but how would Michael Jordan do today? Or perhaps someone like John Stockton? ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/67 "2015-07-12T03:34:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Individuals aren’t teams. I have no doubt that we could find individual players in any team sport from 50-60 years ago who could excel today. Ted Williams could hit today, Jim Brown could score touchdowns, Bobby Hull could score goals and Sandy Koufax could strike men out. But Koufax’s 1965 team, the World Series champion Los Angeles Dodgers, would be eaten alive by any team today. Bobby Hull’s Blackhawks would barely make it to the third period against any NHL team today. Obviously there is no way to ever prove anything in this regard but to say the '65 Dodgers would be eaten alive by any team today is preposterous. In a seven game World Series setting I would argue that the Dodgers could beat any current team and it might be 4-0. The '63 Dodgers were better. I would give anything to see Yadier Molina try his “ouch, you hit my hand with that inside pitch, not my bat” against Drysdale. The result would not have been pretty. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/68 "2015-07-12T04:16:26Z")
Yep, Willie Mosconi in his prime. There has never been a straight pool player of his skill. Before his stroke he was one of the most incredible players that ever lived. btw this record of 526 straight balls still hasn’t been broken. Todays players wouldn’t stand a chance against Mosconi. > **[Willie Mosconi, 80, Who Ruled The World of Billiards With Style (Published 1993)](https://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/18/obituaries/willie-mosconi-80-who-ruled-the-world-of-billiards-with-style.html)** > [@](#): > > His most heralded records include a high run of 526 straight balls in exhibition play, set in Springfield, Ill., in 1954; a high grand average of 18.34 in a world tournament in Chicago in 1950, and a best game in which he sank 150 balls in a row in one inning (a perfect game) against a disbelieving Jimmy Moore in Kinston, N.C., in 1956. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/69 "2015-07-12T05:30:07Z")
I’m going to argue **Poker**. The Game Theory that govern’s today’s top play is far more complex than anything the game saw even 10 years ago. Cagey veterans that read peoples’ eyes are simply dead money to today’s players that focus on Game Theory and Combinatorics. The shelf life of cutting edge poker literature is probably \<4 years at this point and short handed games are largely solved. Jonny Moss and Amarillo Slim wouldn’t know what to think of Phil Galfond, Jason Mercier, and Anette Obrestad. The game was simply different back then. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/70 "2015-07-12T07:29:54Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > I’m going to argue **Poker**. The Game Theory that govern’s today’s top play is far more complex than anything the game saw even 10 years ago. Cagey veterans that read peoples’ eyes are simply dead money to today’s players that focus on Game Theory and Combinatorics. The shelf life of cutting edge poker literature is probably \<4 years at this point and short handed games are largely solved. Jonny Moss and Amarillo Slim wouldn’t know what to think of Phil Galfond, Jason Mercier, and Anette Obrestad. The game was simply different back then. Aren’t you arguing the opposite then? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/71 "2015-07-12T13:15:37Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I have stopped following basketball, but how would Michael Jordan do today? Or perhaps someone like John Stockton? Not far enough back, but I do think Michael Jordan from 1992 or so could easily compete in the NBA today. And he would be one of the top 3 players. > [@Cyberhwk](#): > > I’m going to argue **Poker**. The Game Theory that govern’s today’s top play is far more complex than anything the game saw even 10 years ago. Cagey veterans that read peoples’ eyes are simply dead money to today’s players that focus on Game Theory and Combinatorics. The shelf life of cutting edge poker literature is probably \<4 years at this point and short handed games are largely solved. Jonny Moss and Amarillo Slim wouldn’t know what to think of Phil Galfond, Jason Mercier, and Anette Obrestad. The game was simply different back then. 1. I think you are arguing the opposite of the idea of this thread. 2. Is Doyle Brunson still going strong? ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/72 "2015-07-12T19:13:01Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > What about something like dancing? Would a world class salsa dancer from the 60’s be able to compete in a championship today? I don’t know about salsa, but I think Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly could show the people on Dancing with the Stars a thing or two. What about the high jump? (For horses, not people.) According to what I just looked up, the official Fédération Equestre Internationale record for high jump is 2.47 m (8 ft 1.25 in) by Huaso ex-Faithful, ridden by Capt. Alberto Larraguibel Morales. It was set in 1949. So I think that qualifies for an equine athlete of 50 + years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/73 "2015-07-14T01:18:08Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Aren’t you arguing the opposite then? > [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. I think you are arguing the opposite of the idea of this thread. Yeah, sorry I was unclear. **Oakminister** and **Russian Heel** suggested poker. I meant I would argue it’s inclusion in this list. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. Is Doyle Brunson still going strong? Alive and kicking, though he’s largely stepped back from the game. He was entering the WSOP Main Event every year until this year, but has said at 81 the hours are simply getting too long for him. ---
**Author:** ![Animastryfe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Animastryfe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Animastryfe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/74 "2015-07-28T02:36:12Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m surprised no one has come up with fencing. Put a modern fencer up against a real swordmaster from ~400 years ago and I’ll bet on the latter every time. Fencing, the modern olympic sport, did not exist 400 years ago. Modern fencing is so removed from the martial skill of 400 years ago that I would definitely bet on the modern fencer. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/75 "2015-08-13T03:20:07Z")
Maybe off topic, but I wonder if this may be true of many areas of human achievement beyond sports. For instance, I’d imagine a solid musician in a bar band today would become a rock god if magically transported to the summer of 1965. Pro-wrestlers from the 1950s-1960s seem healthier (and more likely to live to a ripe old age) than those from after 1980. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/76 "2015-09-10T15:21:25Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I suspect Paul Anderson could still make the Olympic team and take a medal or two in weightlifting. Hey, someone who knows Anderson. One of my favorite guys. Spent his life after his Olympic gold medal running a home for boys in legal trouble. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/77 "2015-09-12T03:28:12Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Those were exactly the names I had in mind. As for the others? maybe I misunderstood the OP but I assumed it referred to the very cream of 50 years and only a couple of players would fit into that bracket. Bobby Jones? Babe Didrikson Zaharias? I think you have to look at the raw talent and then think about if they grew up exposed to the modern standards of training/nutrition, opportunities, equipment, etc. - a lot of them probably would have attained even higher levels of performance than they did. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/78 "2015-09-12T03:33:18Z")
Or consider the opposite scenario, how would modern athletes have fared back in the day with more primitive golf clubs, tennis racquets, bulky swimsuits, etc. Maybe a lot of present day NFL players would run home crying after a playing a quarter without pads and helmets against the likes of Jim Thorpe. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495/79 "2015-09-12T04:02:15Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > … presumably stiffer competition today would only make him faster. Agreed - but it’s notable how fast he was without competition (e.g. his finish at the Belmont Stakes). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-sport-game-where-the-world-champion-from-50-years-ago-could-beat-the-current-champ/720495.md?page=3)