# Any Star Wars geeks want to talk about Thrawn? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 17, 2009, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900 "2009-11-17T07:42:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/41 "2009-11-18T14:34:45Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right, but it wasn’t more recently that anyone had any idea what the Sith were or why he was their Dark Lord. Oh, I know. I just think there’s more than a few people out there who think that the Sith first appeared on the scene in 1999 or so. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/42 "2009-11-18T14:54:28Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Yeah, I don’t know if everyone else knows this, but Darth Vader as “Dark Lord of the Sith” has actually been around since “Star Wars”. I don’t remember if it was mentioned in the novelization, but I had a trading card that referred to him as such back in the original 1977/1978 packs. > > -Joe Yes, it’s in the Lucas/Foster novel. The first description of him starts out: “Two meters tall. Bipedal. A Dark Lord of the Sith…” ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/43 "2009-11-18T15:41:42Z")
Good thing he included that note about Vader being bipedal. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/44 "2009-11-18T15:43:49Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Good thing he included that note about Vader being bipedal. (Insert tripedal/giant wang joke here) -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/45 "2009-11-18T15:44:15Z")
Ahhh…_Splinter of the Mind’s Eye_, truly a classic. made all the more creepy by the fact that it was written between New Hope and Empire and had Luke and Leia hook up before it was decided to make them siblings (cue _Dueling Banjos_). I think the Noghri were the best addition to the SW universe. I like how they show up in later books as commandos for the New republic. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/46 "2009-11-18T16:24:11Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Ahhh…_Splinter of the Mind’s Eye_, truly a classic. made all the more creepy by the fact that it was written between New Hope and Empire and had Luke and Leia hook up before it was decided to make them siblings (cue _Dueling Banjos_). I was actually referring to “Star Wars: The Adventures of Luke Skywalker”, which was the novelization of the first released movie. It claims to have been authored by Lucas, but Alan Dean Foster was the ghost writer. And yes, _Splinter_ got strange when ESB was released, but then got all oogy when ROTJ came out. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/47 "2009-11-18T17:45:30Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Good thing he included that note about Vader being bipedal. I hnave to say I like it though. It very clearly says that we’re no longer in Kansas, kids: this is a world whe3re it’s so common to have, well, something other form of locomotion that it has to be stated upfront. It’s a pity it took until the prequel trilogy to show that there wer more and more varied aliens around, but c’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/48 "2009-11-18T19:36:38Z")
While I generally liked Thrawn, I saw his “seeing a race through its artwork” as a clumsy crutch. Instead of having the writing skill to portray a transcendent intellect convincingly (e.g. Leto II and Frank Herbert), he invented a gimmick that was basically a big flashing “Wile E Coyote - Genius” card to hand to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/49 "2009-11-18T19:42:56Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > While I generally liked Thrawn, I saw his “seeing a race through its artwork” as a clumsy crutch. Instead of having the writing skill to portray a transcendent intellect convincingly (e.g. Leto II and Frank Herbert), he invented a gimmick that was basically a big flashing “Wile E Coyote - Genius” card to hand to the reader. Ahem. I _think_ you mean “Wile E Coyote - _ **Suuuuper** _ Genius.” :dubious: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/50 "2009-11-18T21:31:34Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > _brandishes crucifix_ > _and wolfsbane, just to be sure_ I am with you on that sentiment with Kevin J Anderson. Hate his SW books, his x-files books and that was enough to give up on him. Haven’t looked back. As for Thrawn, LOVED the series. I haven’t read it as much as people here but I have read it three times. I need to re-read the two book series again as I don’t remember that as much. In fact, I was out of SW fiction after the New Jedi Order got weird, which happened early on but I kept reading for a while. The Yhuzon Vong (?) don’t do it for me. But, if it has Zahn’s name on it and it’s Star Wars, I pick it up and am not disappointed in it. I did like the Outbound flight books. I haven’t looked in a while, though for SW books. vislor ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/51 "2009-11-18T21:39:15Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > I am with you on that sentiment with Kevin J Anderson. Hate his SW books, his x-files books and that was enough to give up on him. Haven’t looked back. You can hate his Dune abominations (with the willing complicity of Frank Herbert’s son) as well, on my recommendation. You don’t have to, if you don’t want to. But I’m recruiting. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/52 "2009-11-18T21:43:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You can hate his Dune abominations (with the willing complicity of Frank Herbert’s son) as well, on my recommendation. You don’t have to, if you don’t want to. But I’m recruiting. I don’t know how the man got published and continues to publish. I have not met ONE person who likes him! I am serious. All of my friends, FB friends, LJ friends and on various message boards, probably a hundred people, and I have yet to meet one person who defends or likes his writing. vislor ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/53 "2009-11-18T21:46:25Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > I don’t know how the man got published and continues to publish. I have not met ONE person who likes him! I am serious. All of my friends, FB friends, LJ friends and on various message boards, probably a hundred people, and I have yet to meet one person who defends or likes his writing. > > vislor I kind of wish I could pass a law by fiat, that Kevin J. Anderson is forbidden to write another word in someone else’s sub-creation. If he wants to ruin his own invented universe, he’s welcome to it. He just needs to stop shitting in my personal favorite universes. Thank god he’s never written a “Lord of the Rings” sequel…I’d be in jail for murder. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/54 "2009-11-18T22:00:40Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > I don’t know how the man got published and continues to publish. I have not met ONE person who likes him! I am serious. All of my friends, FB friends, LJ friends and on various message boards, probably a hundred people, and I have yet to meet one person who defends or likes his writing. I got into it with him a number of times back in the olden days of Usenet. Any criticism at all he has the same response: I’ve won several awards! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/55 "2009-11-18T22:20:46Z")
I actually kind of liked the Jedi Academy trilogy. _cough_ But that was, again, when I was young, and I never developed anything near the attachment to it that I did to Zahn’s books. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/56 "2009-11-18T22:44:59Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > In fact, I was out of SW fiction after the New Jedi Order got weird, which happened early on but I kept reading for a while. The Yhuzon Vong (?) don’t do it for me. But, if it has Zahn’s name on it and it’s Star Wars, I pick it up and am not disappointed in it. I did like the Outbound flight books. I haven’t looked in a while, though for SW books. I quite liked two of the Yuuzhan Vong books: Rebel Dream and Rebel something else. If nothing else, they have a Republic Super Star Destroyer kicking ass and taking names, repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/57 "2009-11-18T23:21:36Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I kind of wish I could pass a law by fiat, that Kevin J. Anderson is forbidden to write another word in someone else’s sub-creation. If he wants to ruin his own invented universe, he’s welcome to it. He just needs to stop shitting in my personal favorite universes. So what you’re saying is that I should never, ever, _ever_ crack open that copy of _The Last Days of Krypton_ that I bought? Damn. I have to say that I didn’t outright hate the Jedi Academy trilogy, but I read a lot of the EU books–pretty much everything up to about _Darksaber_ (which was really just a thinly-veiled attempt to control the Galaxy with a giant, spacebound, laser-shooting cock), and nothing has ever matched up to the Thrawn books. But looking at my bookshelf now, I see that _Darksaber_ was written by Anderson, so I have to hate him for it. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/58 "2009-11-18T23:49:21Z")
Apropos of nothing, I was doing a little browsing on Wiki of the EU and I see that Joruus C’Boath was originally intended to be be the clone of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Lucas shut that down and Zahn was forced to invent the Outbound Flight concept and Jorus C’Boath for what sounds to me like an overall improvement. Having this great, mad Dark Jedi be a clone of Kenobi would have been a little redundant layered on top of the whole Luke/Vader/Anakin conflict especially if he’d have retained the Luuke clone gimmick. Generally speaking in massive fantasy worlds like this I hate when characters make a habit of returning from the dead by any means and flip flop loyalties in order to manufacture melodrama. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/59 "2009-11-19T02:00:31Z")
Impossible. Obi-Wan doesn’t have a U in his name to double. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900/60 "2009-11-19T03:12:02Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > So what you’re saying is that I should never, ever, _ever_ crack open that copy of _The Last Days of Krypton_ that I bought? Damn. > > I have to say that I didn’t outright hate the Jedi Academy trilogy, but I read a lot of the EU books–pretty much everything up to about _Darksaber_ (which was really just a thinly-veiled attempt to control the Galaxy with a giant, spacebound, laser-shooting cock), and nothing has ever matched up to the Thrawn books. But looking at my bookshelf now, I see that _Darksaber_ was written by Anderson, so I have to hate him for it. That’s Anderson’s own brand of hackery. Lucas had a superweapon that could take out a planet? Well, I’ll make one that can take out a STAR! And I’ll make it indestructible! And I’ll have Leia, but with a perfect memory! And Han, but a successful criminal! And Luke, but this one will be more powerful and fall to the dark side! Anderson makes hacks look awesome. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-star-wars-geeks-want-to-talk-about-thrawn/517900.md?page=4)