# Any truth to this anti-bush flash? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731 "2004-05-30T00:48:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LuckySevens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LuckySevens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LuckySevens)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/1 "2004-05-30T00:48:56Z")
[http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html](http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html) Or is it just more damn lies? Discuss gents šŸ†’ ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/2 "2004-05-30T00:54:59Z")
Didnā€™t you already post this? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/3 "2004-05-30T00:55:43Z")
Seems fair and balanced to me. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/4 "2004-05-30T02:30:59Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Didnā€™t you already post this? [Yupo.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=258781) ---
**Author:** ![LuckySevens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LuckySevens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LuckySevens)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/5 "2004-05-30T03:32:37Z")
i also got refered to post this in GD Seems I cant win ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/6 "2004-05-30T03:45:26Z")
> [@LuckySevens](#): > > i also got refered to post this in GD No, **BillH** said > [@](#): > > This really belongs in GD No instructions for you to repost (which is **against** board rules, BTW). If you wanted the GQ thread in GD, you should have emailed a mod and asked them to move it. Now what you should do is e-mail a mod and ask them to close the thread you donā€™t want. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/7 "2004-05-30T06:47:08Z")
Yes, itā€™s pretty accurate. Great music, too. šŸ˜‰ To see where the Flash creators got their information, read Greg Palastā€™s _The Best Democracy Money Can Buy_. As a reporter for the London _Observer_ (or the _Guardian_?), Palast closely followed the entire 2000 election voter debacle. His coverage was enlightening and damning, to say the least. Hereā€™s [an interview with Palast](http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=177&row=2) that offers a _precis_ on Palastā€™s findings. For an outside view, look at the [U.S. Commission on Civil Rights](http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/main.htm) report on the 2000 vote, following an extensive investigation. Katherine Harris was closely connected with both Bush brothers (and I donā€™t mean sexually, get your mind out of the gutter!). She should never have been allowed anywhere near the voter rolls. And yet ā€¦ well, the result is self-evident. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/8 "2004-05-30T06:56:22Z")
Oops, I forgot one of the best repositories for info on this subject. Discover [the Election 2000 section](http://www.failureisimpossible.com/floridafollies/index.htm) of [Failure Is Impossible](http://www.failureisimpossible.com). ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/9 "2004-05-30T07:05:37Z")
Rather than retype everything Iā€™ve written in the other thread, or C&P it here, Iā€™ll just refer everyone to the version of this thread thatā€™s currently in GQ that Iā€™ve linked to in my previous post. The simple fact is that with the Florida election, youā€™ve got a great case for ineptitude on the part of a number of people, as for rigging the election, thereā€™s simply no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/10 "2004-05-31T02:48:55Z")
Hey, that website links to one of my music pages. (go to links, music and look for the red banner that says ā€œTTMā€) Funny. Itā€™s a small internet. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/11 "2004-05-31T03:19:07Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > The simple fact is that with the Florida election, youā€™ve got a great case for ineptitude on the part of a number of people, as for rigging the election, thereā€™s simply no evidence. Somehow it seems appropriate (poetic?) That an Administration whose competence is subject to serious question gained office through an election run by people whose competence is subject to serious question. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/12 "2004-05-31T03:32:05Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > The simple fact is that with the Florida election, youā€™ve got a great case for ineptitude on the part of a number of people, as for rigging the election, thereā€™s simply no evidence. Isnā€™t it handy when ineptitude ends up being more brilliant than anything anyone could have planned? I donā€™t buy the rigging the election for Bush. For one, no one knew that Florida would be such a close and deciding bout. To have the conspiracy theory work, they would have had to known ahead of time that one specific state would have a margin of a few thousand votes, and that the election would be close enough for that to turn the tide, and for them to know that state was Florida. I WOULD buy a theory saying that various elements of the GOP (as demonstrated in this Flash movie) schemed on their own to tip the balance of voters, with or without the knowledge of Jeb, and that their mechanations just happened to be a happy coincidence with Georgeā€™s campaign. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/13 "2004-05-31T06:03:13Z")
> [@](#): > > For one, no one knew that Florida would be such a close and deciding bout. To have the conspiracy theory work, they would have had to known ahead of time that one specific state would have a margin of a few thousand votes, and that the election would be close enough for that to turn the tide, and for them to know that state was Florida. I disagree, with respect. šŸ™‚ Everyone following the race knew that this was going to be a close election, and it hardly took a clairvoyant to figure out that Floridaā€™s 25 electoral votes could make all the difference in the results. Florida was a juicy plum (or should I say ā€˜orangeā€™, heh) that both Gore and Bush dearly wanted to snag. These are the facts mentioned in the video and shown in the links above. - George W. Bushā€™s FL campaign co-chair was Katherine Harris, Floridaā€™s Secretary of State, a post to which she was appointed by GWBā€™s brother Jeb. - While acting simultaneously acting as GWBā€™s campaign co-chair and Secretary of State, Harris directed Choicepoint/DBT (the firm responsible for ā€œcleaningā€ the voter database of felons) to use a certain set of parameters in striking the voter names ā€“ which resulted in an unusual number of false positives. - Choicepoint/DBT gave Harris a list of 8000 matches who were allegedly ā€œfelons,ā€ although most of whom were, in fact, only guilty of misdemeanors and thus should have been eligible to vote. (This list, btw, came from Texas ā€“ GWBā€™s state. Go figure!) Clay Roberts, the Director of the Division of Elections (and Harrisā€™s subordinate), did not check to confirm these names as legit. - Harris had sole power to certify the votes (perfectly normal for a Secretary of State ā€¦ but damn unusual for a campaign co-chair for one of the candidates!). - During the Palm Beach recount, Harris exercised her power as SoS to a) set the deadline for counting, and then b) rejected the vote results several hours before this deadline. And so on. Now, sure, all these various glitches could be completely coincidental and innocent. But it really doesnā€™t take a paranoid delusional to suspect otherwise. (BTW, I shouldā€™ve also linked to Greg Palastā€™s [BBC report](http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/newsnight/palast.ram). But if youā€™re suspicions of Palast, since his info is what the video was based upon, do check out the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights and the other links I gave above.) Some say that all this is old news and doesnā€™t matter. I couldnā€™t disagree more. I think itā€™s extremely relevant to know if/how elections can be screwed-around-with. I mean geeze, weā€™re talking about the possible subversion of our democracy (or republic, if you want to be strictly accurate) here! ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-truth-to-this-anti-bush-flash/247731/14 "2004-05-31T06:45:10Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I disagree, with respect. šŸ™‚ Everyone following the race knew that this was going to be a close election, and it hardly took a clairvoyant to figure out that Floridaā€™s 25 electoral votes could make all the difference in the results. Florida was a juicy plum (or should I say ā€˜orangeā€™, heh) that both Gore and Bush dearly wanted to snag. Granted, on all points. I still donā€™t know how the timing works out for the Presidential election, though. Guess I need to study this aspect of it more. In any event, the Flash movie seems to present facts pretty well, thus it is a tool of education, thus it is Good ā„¢. > [@](#): > > Some say that all this is old news and doesnā€™t matter. I couldnā€™t disagree more. I think itā€™s extremely relevant to know if/how elections can be screwed-around-with. I mean geeze, weā€™re talking about the possible subversion of our democracy (or republic, if you want to be strictly accurate) here! I agree with you 100%. The fact that they kicked out the UN elections team doesnā€™t make me happy, either.