# Any way a Black Widow film will NOT be a remake of Le Femme Nikita / Red Sparrow? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 7, 2019, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158 "2019-06-07T08:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/1 "2019-06-07T08:39:19Z")
With the upcoming Black Widow film, is there any way that a significant portion of the story will not consist of “attractive but damaged young woman begrudgingly recruiting by brutal, shadowy intelligence agency, given a high class makeover and trained to be a world-class assassin until she becomes disenfranchised and runs afoul of her handlers”? Because, based on the snippets of her past life we’ve seen in the MCU, I kind of feel like they’ve already set down that path. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/2 "2019-06-07T08:51:45Z")
Well, for starters the Widow was first. It’s a bit like asking “is there any way the upcoming Brothers Sister movie will not include horses and people toting Colts, like every other Western with horses and people toting Colts?” ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/3 "2019-06-07T09:02:26Z")
It might not be an origin story. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/4 "2019-06-07T09:33:08Z")
I, for one, hope it’s set entirely in Budapest. And shot\* Rashomon\*-style. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/5 "2019-06-07T13:13:10Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > It might not be an origin story. Here’s hoping. I don’t think Black Widow needs an Origin story for her standalone movie. I might be unusual but, I’d also rather see it steer clear of Budapest. It’s the old tale that an attempt at fan service to flesh out Budapest is unlikely to live up to expectations/imagination of what went down there. I’d personally like to see the story cover the events that saw Natasha move from a Russian assassin to a SHIELD Agent. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/6 "2019-06-07T13:57:03Z")
I’d pay big money to see Debra Winger and Teresa Russell as assassins. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/7 "2019-06-07T13:58:41Z")
An origin story wouldn’t be Scarlett Johannsen, because they’ve already established that she’s been training since childhood. They could try to shoehorn an origin story into a movie about the adult Natasha, but I can’t see any good coming of that. We already know her origin to as much detail as we have the stomach to watch. I, too, expect that the movie will probably cover the events of her turning. And even if it is similar to other movies about female superspies, well, what of that? What matters for a movie is not if it’s been done before, but how well it’s done this time. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/8 "2019-06-07T16:49:20Z")
And I’M hoping it’s a series of flashbacks as she works her way out of the Soul Stone. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/9 "2019-06-07T17:17:05Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > And I’M hoping it’s a series of flashbacks as she works her way out of the Soul Stone. Endorsed! (I’ll take “turning” as the second option.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/10 "2019-06-07T17:44:09Z")
It is like asking if the lioness is a pale imitation of the kitten. Natasha is the template-all others are variations. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/11 "2019-06-07T19:31:20Z")
Rumor has it the Black Widow movie is not about Natasha at all but a new Black Widow. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/12 "2019-06-07T20:16:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It is like asking if the lioness is a pale imitation of the kitten. Natasha is the template-all others are variations. Nope. Black Widow (1964) is a copy of Modesty Blaise (1963). Not to mention Blonde Phantom 1946, Black Fury (also known as Miss Fury) 1941, and in other media:Emma Peel, The Avengers 1961. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/13 "2019-06-07T20:19:32Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Well, for starters the Widow was first. It’s a bit like asking “is there any way the upcoming Brothers Sister movie will not include horses and people toting Colts, like every other Western with horses and people toting Colts?” See my post #12. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/14 "2019-06-07T20:29:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. Black Widow (1964) is a copy of Modesty Blaise (1963). Not even superficially, unless the totality of your research consisted of looking at drawings of them. Different backgrounds, different motivations, different personalities. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/15 "2019-06-07T20:42:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I, for one, hope it’s set entirely in Budapest. And shot\* Rashomon\*-style. This would be brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/16 "2019-06-07T20:58:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not even superficially, unless the totality of your research consisted of looking at drawings of them. Different backgrounds, different motivations, different personalities. Did you see her in any of the early Iron Man comics, before being redone in 1970s? Also, I am not the only one: > **[The Curse of the Black Widow!](https://peerlesspower.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-curse-of-black-widow.html)** > > A blog about the titles, talent, and stories of Marvel Comics! \* It was only after I started reading her in the early 80s that it occurred to me that someone at Marvel might have been a Modesty Blaise fan, and that the Spider-Man #86 “revamp” might have been inspired by O’Donnell’s character. Natasha is an heiress, Modesty a former crime gang leader = both are independently wealthy. Natasha is Russian, Modesty is undetermined but Middle-Eastern European = exotic origins. Natasha has Ivan (quotes old Hollywood movies), Modesty has Willie (quotes psalms) - of course the younger woman/older male “mentor” motif goes way back.\* > **[The origin of Modesty Blaise](https://dochermes.livejournal.com/1159693.html)** > > This three page recap is from 1966. Peter O'Donnell and Jim Holdaway created it for newspapers who were beginning to run the Modesty Blaise strip after it had started. There are one or two points in the origin that I think might be emphasised.... \* When Marvel first reformed the Black Widow from villainess to heroine, they initially essentially turned her into Modesty Blaise. I think that Archie Goodwin had a hand in that. \* ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/17 "2019-06-07T23:48:33Z")
I’d like to see Black Widow starting off as an enemy of SHIELD, someone whom Hawkeye was supposed to take out, before he made a different call, as Natasha mentioned to Loki in _The Avengers._ (That’s assuming she was telling the truth.) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-way-a-black-widow-film-will-not-be-a-remake-of-le-femme-nikita-red-sparrow/835158/18 "2019-06-08T03:02:25Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Well, for starters the Widow was first. It’s a bit like asking “is there any way the upcoming Brothers Sister movie will not include horses and people toting Colts, like every other Western with horses and people toting Colts?” I do keep forgetting that many of these Marvel characters existed for decades prior to the films. However, you would be hard-pressed to convince me that Black Widow is to Clint Eastwood as the “weaponized femme fatale foreign super assassin” film is to the Sergio Leone spaghetti western. Regardless of who did it “first”, it’s been done enough that I don’t need to see it done again.