# Anybody ele watching "Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 25, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581 "2016-12-25T02:04:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/21 "2016-12-27T17:18:16Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Scientology is an evil organization. Fortunately, their time is limited. According to Augustine’s show, there are more ex-Scientologists than active ones. It’s a matter of time before it falls. If the U.S. government got off their asses and rescinded the church’s tax exempt status (they were bullied into it to begin with (see: [Operation Snow White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White) ), it’d collapse in short order. For anyone doubting just how evil Scientology is, the opening paragraph of your link is a great introduction: Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology’s internal name for a major criminal conspiracy during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members in more than 30 countries. It was one of the largest infiltrations of the United States government in history, with up to 5,000 covert agents. We’re talking about an organization that accomplished criminal acts \*beyond \*the scope of anything the Mafia ever attempted - which might sound like hyperbole if it wasn’t true. Remini’s goal with this show is to make something to appeal to the “reality show” demographic. She’s concentrating on the effects on individuals and families, to reach people who probably never would watch _Going Clear_. If this show is a ratings success, they could have a weekly half-hour show, each concentrating on a family broken apart by Scientology, and it could run for years. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/22 "2016-12-28T04:31:32Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I highly recommend her book. I worry for her safety. > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > \ > She is in great danger. And she is fucking with the ultimate modern Mafia family. > [@gaffa](#): > > For anyone doubting just how evil Scientology is, the opening paragraph of your link is a great introduction: > > Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology’s internal name for a major criminal conspiracy during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members in more than 30 countries. It was one of the largest infiltrations of the United States government in history, with up to 5,000 covert agents. > > We’re talking about an organization that accomplished criminal acts \*beyond \*the scope of anything the Mafia ever attempted - which might sound like hyperbole if it wasn’t true.\ I agree that Leah is risking a lot personally by taking on Scientology, but I haven’t seen a lot of evidence that the “church” will actually kill people. They’ll ruin your life with their “fair game” policy, but I don’t know about physically harming people. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/23 "2016-12-28T04:59:11Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I agree that Leah is risking a lot personally by taking on Scientology, but I haven’t seen a lot of evidence that the “church” will actually kill people. They’ll ruin your life with their “fair game” policy, but I don’t know about physically harming people. [Read about Lisa McPherson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_McPherson), or their campaign against journalist Paulette Cooper, where they framed her for making bomb threats, had an operative befriend her with the intention of getting her to commit suicide and discussed murdering her. From the [_Operation Freakout_ Wikipedia article:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout) Sometime during late 1977, according to an affidavit given by Margery Wakefield, a secret meeting was held at the [Scientology] Guardian’s Office where two murders were planned. The first of which was of a young man who had defected from Scientology and had been recaptured, and the second was an assassination of Cooper in which they were planning to shoot her dead. It is unknown whether or not these plans were attempted. If they would have been sure of getting away with it, they clearly would have, just based on what they have done. The number of people in Scientology is shrinking, the pressure is increasing, and the leadership is forbidden from deviating from Hubbard’s instructions. I wouldn’t be shocked at a Jonestown or Heaven’s Gate event happening at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/24 "2016-12-28T04:59:16Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I agree that Leah is risking a lot personally by taking on Scientology, but I haven’t seen a lot of evidence that the “church” will actually kill people. They’ll ruin your life with their “fair game” policy, but I don’t know about physically harming people. I take it you’ve never heard of the [Fort Harrison Hotel](http://www.lateet.com/mysterious-deaths-at-the-fort-harrison-hotel/) in Clearwater, FL? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/25 "2016-12-28T15:46:18Z")
For those interested in the church’s side of things, there is [this](http://scientologymyths.com). > [@](#): > > ``` > Join us in our critical and balanced examination of the myths and facts behind the founder, the subject and the movement of Scientology. The mission of this website is to respectfully, but critically, examine the most highly disputed, and oft-cited areas in all things Scientology. Using documentary evidence and a balanced approach, our goal is to share with you our research into the most polarized areas of Scientology. > > > > Coming Soon! > > Please Note: This website is currently under construction. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/26 "2016-12-28T22:04:16Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I take it you’ve never heard of the [Fort Harrison Hotel](http://www.lateet.com/mysterious-deaths-at-the-fort-harrison-hotel/) in Clearwater, FL? From your article: In 1997 alone, Clearwater police received over 160 emergency calls from the Fort Harrison Hotel. The police responded to each of these calls, however, they were denied entry into the hotel by Scientology security every time. How does that work? I could swear the police have the right to be admitted to any location for “exigent circumstances”. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/27 "2016-12-28T22:39:27Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > On the Open Seas, your Captain is God. > > Commodore Hubbard ran a tight ship. I’ve often wondered just how many beautiful coral reefs were once started with some ship that sank centuries ago with, “Whadd-Ya-Mean-Wrong-God!?” on some Sailor’s lips. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/28 "2016-12-28T22:45:29Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > From your article: > > In 1997 alone, Clearwater police received over 160 emergency calls from the Fort Harrison Hotel. The police responded to each of these calls, however, they were denied entry into the hotel by Scientology security every time. > How does that work? I could swear the police have the right to be admitted to any location for “exigent circumstances”. [More on Scientology and Clearwater.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearwater,_Florida#Scientology) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/29 "2016-12-28T22:53:53Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > For those interested in the church’s side of things, there is [this](http://scientologymyths.com). I must have had the wrong website. I thought this was it: > **[Rockstar Games](https://www.rockstargames.com)** > > The official home of Rockstar Games ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/30 "2016-12-29T01:48:56Z")
With regard to any physical danger that Leah Remini might be in, it looks like Scientology is indeed capable of killing their own followers, but do you think they would take steps to hurt someone who has escaped from the organization? With so many reports of the organization breaking so many laws against its followers, I truly don’t understand how they get away with it. I realize they are horrifically litigious, but you can’t just take the basic human rights away from US citizens in the US and get away with it, can you? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/31 "2016-12-29T02:18:40Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > With regard to any physical danger that Leah Remini might be in, it looks like Scientology is indeed capable of killing their own followers, but do you think they would take steps to hurt someone who has escaped from the organization? Watch Episode 4. Leah’s last interview subject is Scientology head David Miscavage’s own father, Ron. David hired private investigators to follow his own father. At one point, Ron had been out shopping and loaded some stuff into his car. He’d put his cell phone in the pocket of his t-shirt, and clutched his chest to keep it from falling out as he reached into the car. The PIs called their contact, concerned that Ron was having a heart attack, asking if they should intervene or if someone should call 911. They checked with David Miscavage, who told them to do nothing and said “If he dies, he dies.” Most organizations reflect the ethics and morals of their leadership, and this one has a leader who is, by every indication, a violent and depraved sociopath. > [@](#): > > With so many reports of the organization breaking so many laws against its followers, I truly don’t understand how they get away with it. I realize they are horrifically litigious, but you can’t just take the basic human rights away from US citizens in the US and get away with it, can you? The best general introduction to Scientology I’ve found is [Janet Rietman’s _Inside Scientology: The Story of America’s Most Secretive Religion_](https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Scientology-Americas-Secretive-Religion/dp/0547750358). One of the things she covers particularly well is how Scientology managed to get their tax-exempt status back from the IRS by suing an agency of the US government into submission. As bizarre as that seems, every government agency has a budget, and has to stay within it. They simply did not have the resources to continue fighting an organization willing to spend hundreds of millions to preserve billions. They would have had to go to Congress to get funding, and while Social Security may be considered the “third rail” of US politics, “freedom of religion” is so far above even it that no Congress member is willing to even think about touching it. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/32 "2016-12-29T02:44:34Z")
My second recommendation for anyone interested in Scientology is Tony Ortega’s [_The Unbreakable Miss Lovely_](https://www.amazon.com/Unbreakable-Miss-Lovely-Scientology-Paulette-ebook/dp/B00X7IPAK2/). It’s not a good choice for anyone who isn’t already familiar with the organization, but it’s a great read by the former editor of the _Village Voice_ about a fellow journalist, Paulette Cooper and Scientology’s attempt to frame her as a terrorist and drive her to insanity or suicide. The third is Lawrence Wright’s [_Going Clear_](https://www.amazon.com/Going-Clear-Scientology-Hollywood-Prison/dp/0307745309). It’s not as good as Reitman’s book for the beginner, but is still an excellent overview, and an excellent reference on how they have gotten away with so much using the power of celebrity. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/33 "2016-12-29T14:47:03Z")
I caught part of an episode the other night; a couple that, when the wife decided she wanted to get out, the husband had to decide if he wanted to follow her. Obviously there were more details but that was the gist. I’m sure I’ll watch the series at some point but I’ve heard a lot of these stories and more, living so close to the HQ. Speaking of the HQ, I think the thing that pisses me off most about COS - well, aside from their disgusting, criminal abuse- is their taking over the city. Clearwater is the seat of the county and could and should be a jewel in the crown of the county, but the City govt. has rolled over and paved the way for these ass clowns to absolutely take it over and that is just what they’ve done. Many people will remember (either by reading about it or by experience) when the navy blue and white clad minions would walk around town[del] proselytizing [/del] hounding anyone that didn’t run away from them. Now, if you can imagine, it’s even worse. They come to town by the busload and lumber around like zombies, staring straight ahead. They will not look you in the eye or acknowledge you in any way. I’m guessing that’s due to a directive by the church. The vast majority of store fronts downtown are vacant and the few that are in operation are church owned. There are pennants on the light poles with their messages of doom and gloom - I’m assuming those had to get the approval of the city. A few years back they cut down a giant, 100+ year old tree because it was in the way of a revival tent they were putting up for the grand opening of their giant new HQ. I could go on. As much as I loathe scientology, the city leaders deserve a giant “fuck you”. Actually, they deserve precisely the city they now have; a shitty wasteland. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/34 "2016-12-29T14:56:02Z")
Present day laws and social mores don’t matter to deep-in Scientologists. They believe in infinite reincarnation and the here and now is less than a blink of a eye. Those joining the Sea Org sign a “billion year contract” which sounds ludicrous but it makes perfect sense to them. You’re signing up to serve Scientology for this lifetime, and the next, and the next, and so on for the next billion years. They don’t find it odd at all. It’s also why they don’t consider abuse, disconnection or even death to be a problem other than a public relations problem. When you’re going to have another few hundred thousand lifetimes, what’s a gnat bite in this one? The cult is never talked about in terms of being a doomsday cult but I don’t know why. This lifetime means nothing. If Miscaviage sent out the word that he’s been in contact with LRH and the boss needs help clearing planet Zorgog or whatever, hundreds if not thousands of Scienos would gladly be on board. They wouldn’t consider killing themselves anything other than an exciting opportunity. Many would wake up and think “Wait, what?” but many would joyously jump at the chance to meet and serve Hubbard. Luckily there are fewer and fewer die-hards thanks to the people who have been and are brave enough to speak out. Like Leah. I haven’t watched Leah’s show yet but I’ve been a critic since the mid ‘70’s and I’m familiar with all the stories she’s telling. Like Going Clear, the book and movie, she can just scratch the surface of the evils of this cult, but I’m very glad she’s trying. For anyone who is the slightest bit skeptical of the critics’ stories, you have no idea. It’s much much worse than you can imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/35 "2016-12-29T15:13:10Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I watched one episode, I think maybe it was the 2nd one, with one formerly very high up enforcer relating his experiences. I found it eye-opening, and yet some part of me was sitting back and saying to myself “Well, that’s his side of the story.” I guess I can’t just lay down my skepticism even for something that seems to hang together as his account did. > > One thing that bothered me is Remini: some of her reactions seemed over-the-top and stagy, i.e. acting to a script. She can’t still be so naïve now that these revelations would “shock” her in this way. I’m not really questioning the facts so much. Just that instead of showing us objective facts, she feels the need to pound it into our heads that a) Scientology and it’s leaders are horrible; and b) she isn’t. Too bad, I think it could have been handled better. She has said that when she was younger she tried to drag others into the church, and she feels horrible about that now. So, I don’t think she feels above criticism. She is very lucky that her parents also left the “church” when she did. Otherwise, she never would have seen them again. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/36 "2016-12-29T15:25:21Z")
I thought it was interesting how they surround their celebrity members. Tom Cruise’s entire household staff (housekeepers, chefs, gardeners, drivers…etc) are Scientology members, there to keep an eye on him. The same of probably true of John Travolta. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/37 "2016-12-29T17:18:26Z")
Did I read somewhere, maybe here (or maybe I’m making it up) that Tom Cruise is actually tired of scientology? And that he wants to get out but the church won’t let him? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/38 "2016-12-29T17:20:51Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Really ? > _Really ?_ > _ **Really ?** _ > > Anyway much as I detest such creeds \*, I am uncomfortable with kiss-and-tell reveal all _exposes_. Better to say as with ex-cocaine or heroin users surviving: “_I was ripped off, but they gave me a lot of pleasure and a reason to live, therefore I will not blackguard my old mentors_.” > > - Which yes, includes many major religions which started off small. I know I know I know, man… ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/39 "2016-12-29T19:48:32Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Did I read somewhere, maybe here (or maybe I’m making it up) that Tom Cruise is actually tired of scientology? And that he wants to get out but the church won’t let him? No.Cruise is in, a true believer, and David Miscaviage’s best friend, He’ll be a cult dupe until the bitter end. If he really wanted out he could do it, and start by ending his disconnection from Suri. He won’t. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581/40 "2016-12-29T19:55:32Z")
I read Remini’s book. My take on it was that she and her entire family were knee deep in Scientology and that she enjoyed favoritism shown because of her minor celebrity status, including being invited to Cruise and Holmes’ wedding and befriending Jennifer Lopez. But as Cruise’s star rose within the church, and he essentially became its “God,” he outshadowed her, which made her question everything. She became more and more disillusioned and bitter because the more she pushed, the more they pushed her out. I do appreciate that she’s coming out with all this information, but it seems to me that it’s rooted in revenge, and I’m not sure that her motivation is all that pure. However, I think Scientology is hogwash, not to mention dangerous and irresponsible. I think it should lose its tax exempt status because it’s nothing more than a for-profit business. (Of course, many churches should lose their tax exempt status for the same reason.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-ele-watching-leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/775581.md?page=3)