# Anybody else given up on THE WALKING DEAD? If so, why? (Open spoilers likely.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 18, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843 "2014-09-18T17:01:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/61 "2014-09-22T23:12:14Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You cannot have ten thousand zombies without first having nine thousand zombies. You cannot have nine thousand zombies without first having eight thousand zombies. You cannot have eight thousand zombies without first having seven thousand zombies. And so on. It is pointless to claim that some critical mass of zombies would become a self-sustaining horde that converts more humans to zombies than those humans kill if they have no way of reaching that critical mass. > > And you can’t have a critical mass of zombies at _any_ quantity if humans manage anything better than a 1:1 kill ratio. 7 thousand people die a day in the US. In the initial stages it seems like a safe bet that those dudes will get some pretty high bite (if not death) ratios. If for the first week, each of the natural death zombies bites two people… Day 1: 7k Natural Dead Zombie, who bite 14k people. Day 2: +7k NDZ who bite 14k people. Day 3: +7k NDZ, who bite 14k people. +14k bite victims die and bite 28k people. Day 4: +7k NDZ, who bite 14k people. +14k bite victims die and bite 28k people. Day 5: +7k NDZ, who bite 14k people. +42k bite victims die and bite 84k people. And that’s just the people who naturally die from old age or cancer or whatever. There would be extra, “homeless guy bit me” deaths. And when water stops pumping in some municipal area, three days later, hundreds of thousands of zombies. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/62 "2014-09-22T23:37:08Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You cannot have ten thousand zombies without first having nine thousand zombies. You cannot have nine thousand zombies without first having eight thousand zombies. You cannot have eight thousand zombies without first having seven thousand zombies. And so on. It is pointless to claim that some critical mass of zombies would become a self-sustaining horde that converts more humans to zombies than those humans kill if they have no way of reaching that critical mass. > > And you can’t have a critical mass of zombies at _any_ quantity if humans manage anything better than a 1:1 kill ratio. Zombie origin stories vary, but they always start with some mechanism to get to a shambling horde quickly. Either that’s the old version of the story where the already-dead rise first, or it’s some viral infection version where the first zombies don’t need to get bitten, having been poisoned/infected by an alternate delivery mode. For example, Resident Evil (movie) started the zombie outbreak with an airborne version. Transmission by biting was only important after the airborne agent was cleared out of the air. But your basic point stands, and I even agree. It’s why I like zombie stories that have a clear start and stop; a zombie horde is just not a long-term threat to real people. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/63 "2014-09-22T23:45:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > There would be extra, “homeless guy bit me” deaths. And when water stops pumping in some municipal area, three days later, hundreds of thousands of zombies. Yeah, but the problem is that three days after that, there should be nothing but hundreds of thousands of feebly pulsing piles of bacterial nirvana. Particularly in a hot Georgia summer. The zombies are dead – by definition they have no metabolisms to provide energy. They apparently don’t heal and they’re dumb. If you have 100’s of thousands of _people_, you’d have to provide them with food and water or they’ll keel over. How do zombies manage it without violating the Laws of Thermodynamics and some pretty firm guidelines from Biology? Even if they have some rudimentary metabolisms, you can’t keep that many creatures alive without logistics. I can buy a handful of zombies getting by on the occasional human snack and whatever other critters a slow shambling wreck can creep up on, but a “super swarm” of zombies should be self-limiting. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/64 "2014-09-22T23:58:52Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Yeah, but the problem is that three days after that, there should be nothing but hundreds of thousands of feebly pulsing piles of bacterial nirvana. Particularly in a hot Georgia summer. The zombies are dead – by definition they have no metabolisms to provide energy. They apparently don’t heal and they’re dumb. If you have 100’s of thousands of _people_, you’d have to provide them with food and water or they’ll keel over. How do zombies manage it without violating the Laws of Thermodynamics and some pretty firm guidelines from Biology? Even if they have some rudimentary metabolisms, you can’t keep that many creatures alive without logistics. > > I can buy a handful of zombies getting by on the occasional human snack and whatever other critters a slow shambling wreck can creep up on, but a “super swarm” of zombies should be self-limiting. I think you’re fighting the hypothetical. 😃 I assume that zombies are mostly incorruptible after a bit of time passes. That their nature only allow decomposition to go so far. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/65 "2014-09-23T00:49:22Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s ultimately why I quit watching TWD after what… Season 3? The last episode I saw had Daryl and Merle in a pit with some zombies, and Rick & co. busting into Woodbury to get (I think) Glenn and Maggie out. The walkers had quit being a serious threat, and the show had devolved into a post-apocalyptic soap-opera for all intents and purposes. > > If I wanted to watch a drama about people fighting each other, I’d watch something else. I want a show that’s creepy and spooky and where the zombies are at least a threat when they’re around, not something that the good guys can handle at will. Problems with zombies aside, at this point if I want a zombie story I’ll open up my Kindle and re-read John Ringo’s Black Tide Rising series. It’s got its problems but at least the zombies are not actually the living dead and the characters actually have a plan that they’re competent at. The defenders of the comic books and TV series always say it’s not really about the zombies but about the people who have survived. That would be fine if the people were actually interesting and the writing overall was good. We (I say we because she was always more interested in the series than I was) gave up about halfway through the third season. We’ve still got the back half of the season on the DVR and it’s set up to keep recording but it might wind up being summarily deleted just like the latest season of Falling Skies. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/66 "2014-09-23T01:04:27Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > 7 thousand people die a day in the US. In the initial stages it seems like a safe bet that those dudes will get some pretty high bite (if not death) ratios. If for the first week, each of the natural death zombies bites two people… > > Day 1: 7k Natural Dead Zombie, who bite 14k people. > Day 2: +7k NDZ who bite 14k people. > Day 3: +7k NDZ, who bite 14k people. +14k bite victims die and bite 28k people. > Day 4: +7k NDZ, who bite 14k people. +14k bite victims die and bite 28k people. > Day 5: +7k NDZ, who bite 14k people. +42k bite victims die and bite 84k people. > > And that’s just the people who naturally die from old age or cancer or whatever. There would be extra, “homeless guy bit me” deaths. And when water stops pumping in some municipal area, three days later, hundreds of thousands of zombies. Yes, but this assumes that nobody knows what’s going on and that the dead are reanimating and biting without a single mention of it on the news, the net, nowhere. Nowadays it seems that almost everything gets its 15 minutes of fame… hell, if I’m hearing about some nobody like _Zoe Quinn_ and that complete non-story, you bet I’m seeing “DEAD PEOPLE COMING BACK TO LIFE!” splashed everywhere. I also started a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=665979) on this topic earlier and the general consensus was “Yeah, it can’t go down like it does in the movies because essentially zombies are magic and people have to be unimaginably dumb for this to even become a threat.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/67 "2014-09-23T01:24:34Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > How do zombies manage it without violating the Laws of Thermodynamics and some pretty firm guidelines from Biology? They already have, by being zombies. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/68 "2014-09-23T01:27:15Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > a zombie horde is just not a long-term threat to real people. Which is why the show has the Governor and various Bad Guys. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/69 "2014-09-24T23:54:23Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I can buy a handful of zombies getting by on the occasional human snack and whatever other critters a slow shambling wreck can creep up on, but a “super swarm” of zombies should be self-limiting. Sigh. I don’t like this show enough to put a lot of effort into defending it, but those people dying of thirst and hunger like **Lobohan** mentioned are also going to rise up as zombies too. At some point early on they realize that EVERYONE still living is already infected, so all the dead will become zombies upon death, not just the bitten. There’s enough death by other means going on in this sad dystopia to provide a ton of replacement zombies when the original ones rot away. Sure, it’s self-limiting, but 7 billion people have to die before that point. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/70 "2014-09-25T00:38:01Z")
I wouldn’t be all that broken up if Terminus and all its current inhabitants were to suddenly sink into the swamp…but any show that has the guts to execute a 12 year old girl is worth tuning in for at least one more season, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/71 "2014-09-25T00:52:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yes, but this assumes that nobody knows what’s going on and that the dead are reanimating and biting without a single mention of it on the news, the net, nowhere. Nowadays it seems that almost everything gets its 15 minutes of fame… hell, if I’m hearing about some nobody like _Zoe Quinn_ and that complete non-story, you bet I’m seeing “DEAD PEOPLE COMING BACK TO LIFE!” splashed everywhere. > > I also started a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=665979) on this topic earlier and the general consensus was “Yeah, it can’t go down like it does in the movies because essentially zombies are magic and people have to be unimaginably dumb for this to even become a threat.” The original zombie apocalypse movie Dawn Of The Dead shows in it’s opening scenes how it could happen, the government starts sending around “bring out your dead” trucks and heavily armored cops/soldiers to make sure people comply. It doesn’t take long for race and class anxieties to blow up, conspiracy theories sprout like mushrooms, and family members of the formerly living who can’t accept their loved one is dead to lead to things like people keeping a zombie loved one at home or hoarding them in the basement of apartment buildings thinking they can be cured instead of handing them over for disposal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/72 "2014-09-25T00:57:43Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Sigh. I don’t like this show enough to put a lot of effort into defending it, but those people dying of thirst and hunger like **Lobohan** mentioned are also going to rise up as zombies too. At some point early on they realize that EVERYONE still living is already infected, so all the dead will become zombies upon death, not just the bitten. There’s enough death by other means going on in this sad dystopia to provide a ton of replacement zombies when the original ones rot away. Sure, it’s self-limiting, but 7 billion people have to die before that point. I’d imagine that a “Zombie only if bitten” world would then be much easier to maintain/regain control in. Have any works made this explicit, saliva or such being the only transmission medium? Die normally and you don’t come back? [Not sure why such a question would be meaningful in such a discussion, considering that zombies clearly violate at least some laws of thermodynamics, but am curious…] ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/73 "2014-09-25T01:44:26Z")
What everyone seems to be missing, is that you can hook zombies up to machinery and they run almost forever, on no food or water. Free clean energy. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/74 "2014-09-25T09:47:01Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > What everyone seems to be missing, is that you can hook zombies up to machinery and they run almost forever, on no food or water. > > Free clean energy. So the real question is whether an airplane can take off using a zombie-powered treadmill. There’s probably whole sorts of uses for zombies that characters never think of. Guard dog, hamster, scarecrow… ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/75 "2014-09-25T10:56:46Z")
I originally gave up at the farmhouse, but everybody said it got a lot better after that so I gave it another try with the Governor and the Prison. Nope, sorry. Endless misery with no happy ending possible is not my idea of entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/76 "2014-09-25T11:57:20Z")
I gave up halfway through the governor story. It could no longer hold my attention. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/77 "2014-09-25T12:51:41Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You cannot have ten thousand zombies without first having nine thousand zombies. You cannot have nine thousand zombies without first having eight thousand zombies. You cannot have eight thousand zombies without first having seven thousand zombies. And so on. Huh. Zombo’s Paradox. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/78 "2014-09-27T19:51:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I gave up halfway through the governor story. It could no longer hold my attention. That’s pretty much when I stopped watching. The show was just not that interesting. The characters are dumber than a bag of hair, the only real conflict involves the same bickering and petty arguments over and over, and there are so many inconsistencies with interactions with the zombies that it stopped making sense. I don’t care about Merle enough to hate him, and I don’t care about Daryl enough to root for him. I just don’t care. So I stopped watching. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/79 "2014-09-27T20:06:46Z")
I loved the first two seasons but then it got stupid midway through that second season. Jist dumb, they yanked your chain with the first and last 5 minutes of good action and plot, but the 40 minutes in between sucked. So I voted not for love or money. ---
**Author:** ![revjo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@revjo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/revjo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843/80 "2014-09-27T20:11:18Z")
I still watch it with friends…its a social thing, but it has become pretty repetitive. Also, how the hell do you sometimes have quiet zombies that sneak up and kill people, but other times the zombies make so much noise? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-else-given-up-on-the-walking-dead-if-so-why-open-spoilers-likely/698843.md?page=5)