And what the hell is “trim”?
I have it and love it. My favorite is to fly formation with the big jets in my F-15!
This stuff about simulators vs. real life has been done before:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117809&highlight=flight+and+simulator
I hold a commercial pilot’s license, and I use MSFS 2002 mostly as a game. However, it is a pretty good instrument flight trainer. But for learning how to actually control a real aircraft, it’s nowhere close to the real thing.
Trim helps you relieve some of the constant control pressure when you are flying.
The most common trim system uses tabs on the control surfaces. The trim wheel (knob, switch, whatever) will move this tab up or down, exerting a pressure on the surface to tend towards a certain position.
Some aircraft have trim for all three axes: pitch, roll, and yaw.
Pitch trim is the most common and useful for extended climbs or descents, or varying power settings or aircraft loadings. It uses a small trim tab on the elevator.
Roll trim will be on the ailerons, and is less common. It is good for airplanes with side by side seating. Some of these airplanes tend to roll to one side or the other with only one person in the plane.
Yaw trim is on the rudder. Single engine propeller planes have a left turning tendancy, and rudder trim will help keep it flying straight.
This is simplified, so the rest of you pilots don’t yell at me for not including spring-type trim systems or whatever. 
[MST3k]
Crow: Mike, you can’t fly the Satellite of Love!
Mike: Sure I can! I’m fully instrument rated on Microsoft Flight Simulator.
[/MSt3k]
And for good measure, Sideshow Bob!
“God bless the idiot-proof Air Force!”
(The control panel on his Harrier consists of two buttons: “fly” and “stop”.)
You do not need a radio in the vast majority of the US. You only need it in Class A, B, C, or D airspace. I guess you could say that Class A makes up most of the airspace in the US, but keep in mind that it doesn’t start until 18000 feet, and you have to be instrument rated to even fly there. B, C, and D airspace only make for a very, very, tiny portion of the US. The vast majority (98%) of airports in the US are non-towered, no radio required. A lot of pleasure flyers could go their whole lives without being required to have a radio.
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So? That doesn’t mean you have to talk to them. Just stay out of A, B, C, or D airspace.
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Yes it is. Unless you meant that you live IN it. You can fly above, around, and underneath Class B without a radio.
You almost sound as if you are discouraging a deaf person from learning to fly.
Let’s see:
your class ‘g’ generally is limited to 1500’ agl - since minimum altitude is 1000’, that leaves 500’ for you theoretical nordo ops.
(the floor of class ‘e’ airspace is 1200’)
are you seriously proposing that nordo ops be conducted at these altitudes in high-density airspace?
your nordo pilot, being unaware of traffic is a ntsb fatality-in-waiting, and I’d grant an automatic ‘darwin’ for the twit who flies into wake turbulence at 1300’ ft.
I have flown into non-tower airports (not anywhere near me, but…). even at those places, the practice is to self-announce on ctaf (common traffic advisory frequency) - and to listen to the ctaf for info on arriving/departing traffic.
where I live, a nordo is a mid-air waiting to happen - yes, I would discourage a deaf person operating an aircraft anywhere near me. Just the traffic advisorys are reason enough to use a radio - planes do not have rear-view mirrors, and the wing blocks your view - there have been so many cases of a low-winger landing on top of a high-winger that the scenario is specifically mentioned in flight training materials.
The site talking about deaf pilots also referred to the “Recreational License” for pilots - as far as I know, that is still on the books, but generally unused.
For the deaf wishing to fly - check locally about feasibility - not just possibility.
the absolute authority is the local FAA FS/DO (flight stds/district office). I know of offices in Oakland and San Jose - otherwise, google.
I can’t think of any faster way to get class ‘g’ airspace eliminated than to encourage nordo flights in high-density areas.
any deaf pilots want ot check in?
what kind of medical do you have? where do you fly? conflicts with radio-oriented pilots? how do you announce your intentions?
No, I am seriously proposing that they take place in Class E. Why limit someone without a radio to Class G? They should fly in Class E and G, which make up the majority of the airspace. Just because E is “controlled” does not mean you have to talk to ATC, or have a radio, or even have an electrical system at all.
It is common practice to self-announce at non-towered fields. But it is optional. You don’t have to have a radio.
That may be so where YOU live, but not where Airman Doors or some other hearing impaired person reading this thread might live. Most of the US would be fair game for the deaf pilot. Most places just aren’t that busy.
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A deaf person can hold a commercial certificate. No need to stop at a recreational ticket.
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This is a good idea. If a deaf person lived in a high-traffic area, they may have to commute a ways to fly. May not be very far, though.
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They have already spoken. A deaf pilot can hold a commerical certificate.
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First of all, Class G would be impossible to eliminate. Below 1200 feet, you can’t get 100% radar and radio coverage, so there is no way to control that airpspace effectively. Second, if it was a high density area, it would not be Class G anyway. Thirdly, why would a deaf pilot limit himself to G? He would probably stay in E, like 99 percent of the other VFR traffic does.
right. whatever.
yes, there are still wide-open areas (I haven’t been near one in years, but I’m sure that they still exist).
unfortunately, where the majority of people live, nordo is not an option.
can we agree that the deaf contact the local airport, see what the CFI’s think? and the ME’s?
I’ll do better than that. If Airman Doors wants to know where he can fly with no radio, then he can post his city and I will show him. Then we can discuss just how “limited” he really is.
Joey -
Would you happen to be related to these people?:
http://friendsofmeigs.org/html/Arrival_Procedures_No_Radio_Class_D.html
Meigs Field is a small airport on the shore of Lake Michigan - in DOWNTOWN CHICAGO (bewteen O’Hare and Midway).
These idiots seem to be advocating flying nordo over downtown Chicago. Brilliant.
This is another good way to get the rules amended to prohibit nordo everywhere.
and people wonder why GA airports are disappearing.
For those who never knew or have forgotten:
the current system of active ATC was instituted when the old “see and be seen” system of collision avoidence failed big time - two airliners collided over the Grand Canyon when one of the pilots decided to descend to “give the passengers a good view”.
Yup, just ignore ATC - they can’t MAKE you talk to them, after all.
Let me get this straight: You are saying a procedure that the FAA wrote specifically to allow nordo ops in class D, will result in them writing another rule to prohibit nordo everywhere? It’s not like these people are hopping into Piper Cubs and flying back and forth over O’Hare. They are following a published procedure and ARE acting under ATC control.
Besides, didn’t you say earlier that a no-radio ticket would be of limited use in the US, and nordo is not an option? Yet, you just posted a link showing the procedures for people with no radios how to legally fly in class D airspace. Guess that nordo ticket wasn’t as limiting as you would have had people believe.
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GA airports are closing because of deaf pilots and no-radio operations?
I think they are closing because narrow-minded people discourage newcomers to the hobby.
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They can where it’s needed. Most places, it just isn’t needed. You can bitch and moan about it all you want, but the FAA agrees with me.
If you are going to reply, you need to open a new post in The Pit. I am not going to pig-wrestle in Airman Doors thread.
so, you are related to them, then?
Seizing on rules designed to allow the aging fleet (when was the last TC granted to a design without “engine-driven electical system”?)
to continue to operate, and then demanding that unlimited numbers of such craft operate in an area where such craft are manifestly unsafe, is worse than demanding everyone should have unlimited access to fully-automatic firearms.
Your “nordo forever” thinking will:
- get people killed (but, hey!, It was legal for me to fly nordo - so what if I ran into the other plane?).
- discredit GA
- make life for those of us who try to preserve GA airports much harder.
You remind me of those who decry restrictions on rifle magazines’ capacity as “taking away my rights”.
get a starter/battery/alternator, then maybe you’d like to show lights during night ops over Chicago?
Then a maybe transponder and comm radio?
get over yourself and your 2[sup]nd[/sup] amendment/Part 91 RIGHTS
:wally
and, by definition, nordo (no radio) craft are definitely NOT under ATC! Damn, I get tired of typing “Duh”.
Sorry, I meant Atreyu.
Yup. I’ve even done it. Flew a Piper Warrior 70 miles to get it home after a total electrical failure.
Go back and re-read your airspace regs, Heathen. Class E does NOT require a radio or contact with ATC. Most of the time, I don’t speak to ATC at all on a flight. It’s only required when flying on instruments or entering a towered airport - and even for the latter, there are long-established procedures for asking permission to operate NORDO. Remember hearing about light signals in ground school? What do you think those are for? Making shadow puppets on the clouds?
There are these things called “windows” in cockpits… you look out of them to avoid other traffic… Or do you assume everyone in your vicinity is on the correct radio frequency at all times? I’d say that’s a potentially dangerous attitude. People talk on the wrong frequencies, they fail to speak up when they should, they mis-report their position…you better rely on more than just the radio to avoid collisions.
Also - I’d wager your odds of survival of a wake turbulence encounter at 1300 feet are MUCH greater than at 13 feet - which is where it’s more likely to occur, on take off or landing. The big jet routes are published and easily avoided by a pilot who has done his/her homework. Yes, things like Lears do fly into non-towered airports, but it’s the larger varieties of such. The vast majority of small strips will never seen an aircraft capable of causing significant wake turbulence.
Yes, but you never assume you’re hearing everyone, or that they are correctly reporting positions. You seem to be basing your opinion on your experience at towered airports - not at any in-depth knowledge of non-towered airports, which is where deaf pilots operate nearly all the time.
Where do you live?
Why, afraid it’s catching?
Seriously, I’d discourage a deaf pilot from flying into O’Hare or Midway - heck, I’d discourage most hearing general aviation pilots from doing that - but that has to do with the speed of operations and the size of the aircraft normally using it more than the state of anyone’s hearing.
I beg your pardon? The airplane I soloed - N11558 - most certainly did, and still does.
Depends on the airplane - some have less problem with this than others.
And they have ALL involved hearing pilots… so what does that prove? You HAVE TO look out that window to avoid this sort of thing. If I’m in the pattern and I hear that another plane of opposite wing type (I fly both high and low wings) is on the same leg I am the FIRST thing I do is climb if I’m in a low-wing or drop a hundred feet if I’m in a high wing. THEN I wiggle that plane around to see around the blind spot. THAT’s how you avoid the low/high wing collision, NOT by ignoring what’s outside your window and continuing to rely on just the radio.
Maybe you need a refresher on non-tower ops?
Have 62 recreational pilots operating in my Flight District. Those people no doubt thoroughly enjoy their privileges.
Actually, last I heard, there were three deaf pilots in the US with commercial pilot’s licenses, earning their living by flying. Obviously, they aren’t with the airlines, but ag ops, survey work, and even cargo hauling between non-tower airports are certainly viable options.
I know about this in part because some years ago I ran into a couple of deaf pilots and did a little actual research rather than just make assumptions.
Deaf pilots can’t fly in Class A (neither can I, and I can hear). They are extremely unlikely to let a deaf pilot into Class B or C. However, Class D and E airports have (as I said) long-established procedures for non-radio ops and some have such low traffic and are eager enough for business they’d welcome ANYONE legally flying into their airport. All non-towered airports (the vast majority) are open to deaf pilots. Even the Oshkosh fly in - which is the busiest airspace in the world for the time the party is on - has non-radio procedures. They have to, it’s the only way to get some of the antiques/ classics/ homebuilts/ ultralights into the field, whether the pilots can hear or not.
It is FAR more likely deaf piloting is “feasible” in any given area of the United States than not.
My local FSCO - South Bend - has been mentioning training and certification of deaf pilots at every safety meeting I’ve gone to in the last three years. They have literature available on certification of deaf pilots at every one of those meetings. Maybe YOUR area isn’t open to it, Heathen, but mine is.
No is suggesting anyone cruise Class B without a radio, Heathen. Deaf pilots are restricted to either locations where radios are not required - for ANYONE - which is the VAST MAJORITY of the sky, or must follow procedures for traversing airspace requiring ATC contact - just like anyone on a ferry flight might have to, or flying a pre-electrical system aircraft.
If the FAA ever gets working and approves a system for controllers and pilots to e-mail each other in real time - a system being actively developed - then even that restriction might be eliminated. And the FAA has stated that allowing deaf pilots to fly safely into towered airports would be an extra benefit of such a system.
Obviously, either a Class 3 or a Class 2, depending on whether they’re Recreational/Private or Commercial. Jeez, man, you could look that up yourself in the FARs. No doubt they have a restriction about only operating where radios aren’t required - big freakin’ deal. Mine says I have to wear “corrective lenses” while flying. My old CFI has a former student who’s medical specifies her plane must be equipped with a hand-controlled rudder (paraplegic). Your point is…?
Anywhere outside of Class A, B, C, or D. Possibly into towered airports occassionally, with prior permission and clearance from ATC.
You’re starting to scare me, Heathen. “Radio-oriented”? If your primary means of avoiding traffic problems is the radio puh-LEEZE stay away from my airport. You have these two things called EYEBALLS (unless you’re a one-eyed pilot, of which there are a few…). You need to use the EYEBALLS in conjunction with those clear wall panels called WINDOWS to LOOK FOR traffic. Unless you are a bat or dolphin or other echo-locating critter, in which case I will accept sonar as a viable substitute. But I don’t think the FAA licenses non-humans.
The standard, non-towered traffic pattern (it’s in the AIM, look it up) is there specifically so you have some idea where folks are going to be and what they will be doing whether you hear them on the radio or not. Where there are exceptions to the standard pattern, it will be listed in the Airport and Facilities Directory (again, look it up). And last, but not least, if there is any doubt in your mind how to approach and operate around a non-towered field you can contact the airport ahead of time and ask - something I’ve done, and I hear just fine, thank you.
Stop needlessly throwing obstacles in the path of other people. I don’t know where you normally fly, but just because a deaf pilot might have problems in YOUR backyard doesn’t mean they aren’t welcome in MINE.