# Anybody know an actuary (or are one)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2001, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470 "2001-11-27T07:20:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![abidude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@abidude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abidude)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/1 "2001-11-27T07:20:12Z")
I am considering this as a career path and was wondering if anybody knows anything about the field. I know that it pays well and the tests basically take over your life but I was wondering if it’s true that the field is full of young, singles (like me). I just want to know what it’s like and see if I should try an internship or if it is something that’s stressful or uninteresting. An actuary basically uses statistics and stuff to work with investment firms, insurance agencies, and other places to create formulas for the company. For example, they say that the teenager w/ a sportscar has a high premium. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/2 "2001-11-27T08:14:00Z")
I’ve known a couple. One was a very nice New Zealand lady. The other was a very nice but VERY boring Australian girl. The tests seem to take forever, but you still have a massive paypacket for most of the training. I think with any career decisions you should get work experience/internship first. I suggest even just spending a week or two with at least a couple of different firms. I work in a totally different industry, but doing this in my industry massively helped narrow down my choice of areas, and gave me real focus about what I wanted to do and the sort of companies I wanted to work for. This helped me pick the right training course, and ultimately I think it really helped me get my first job. Choosing actuarial science because it’s full of young singles is IMO not a great idea! I also think you need to be very dedicated and have a flair for maths. But asking for advice like this is a great way to start any career research, so good luck with whatever you do. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/3 "2001-11-27T08:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by abidude \* > \*\*For example, they say that the teenager w/ a sportscar has a high premium. \*\* Yes - complex number-crunching to determine risk, such as how likely it is that teenagers with sports cars will incur a given level of insurance claims, or a people with reverse mortgages will die at a particular age, etc, etc. It’s math, math and more math applied in the invigorating environment of an insurance company. You also have to put up with jokes - eg, “ **An actuary is someone who felt accounting was too exciting** ”. The young singles may be living proof of the truth of these cruel jibes. I have known an actuary or two. But high pay, it has to be said. Good luck 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/4 "2001-11-27T09:09:22Z")
I used to work with the actuarial department of the Prudential on a project while I was there. The ones I worked with were an odd mix of quiet, witty, middle-aged men and very quiet young women. As much as I hate to label groups, they weren’t the most exciting bunch in the world. We once got them out to the pub for a celebratory end-of-project lunch, and they sat in a huddle together and never spoke to us. Still, outside work they may have been party animals for all I know. Bloody hard-working, mind. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/5 "2001-11-27T10:20:54Z")
A friend of mine is an actuary, or rather training to be one. They have **lots** of exams and from what I’ve seen of them they are extremely hard. Lots of mathematics and statistics analysis. If you’re not good with numbers I wouldn’t even consider it. Having said that, once you qualify you are pretty much on a guaranteed high wage for life. And those I’ve met are much like any other people. Maybe not the wackiest bunch of outlaws you’re ever likely to meet, but not all dull and boring. That’s a stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/6 "2001-11-27T12:46:46Z")
Calling Kabbes, Calling Kabbes! Your presence is requested! ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/7 "2001-11-27T16:35:31Z")
My brother is one. To make his parties more exciting he invites an accountant. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/8 "2001-11-27T16:55:45Z")
**handy there** , trying a joke that has already been used a few posts above. But what they hey. Anyway… To my knowledge, there are three actuaries on this board. Me (although I’m still attempting to get my last exam. Just failed it. &\*%!), **december** and **CK Dexter Haven**. **december** and, I believe, **Dex** are general insurance actuaries. I worked for three years as a pensions actuary but now I too am in general insurance. There are two other fields actuaries work in: life insurance and investment. The most succinct explanation for what an actuary does is probably this: **Actuaries put present values on uncertain future payments**. For example: [li]A pensions actuary identifies how much money a pension scheme needs to pay out all pensions when they are due. They will also suggest contribution rates for people to pay to ensure that they have the pension they want.[/li] [li]A general insurance actuary attempts to identify how much money a GI company needs to pay future claims as they fall due. They also set prices for insurance, as you say. But don’t just think cars. I’ve been involved in pricing for satellites, ships, supermarkets and even local governments. (The latter two are examples of _liability_ insurance - if you slip over on a shop floor and sue the supermarket, they will claim against their insurance policy. If a tree root damages your house and you sue the local government, they will claim against their insurance policy).[/li] [li]A life insurance actuary is responsible for the products the company provides. They will have to make sure there is enough money set aside and, in the UK, decide on bonus levels for with-profits policies.[/li] [li]An investment actuary helps to set investment policy for the above and other areas. There are various principles of investment, but the overriding one is _matching_ - the idea that your assets should have similar characteristics to your liabilities.[/li] The work… … is by turns interesting and dull. There is a _huge_ variation in types of job: you could be on the forefront of state-of-the-art ideas or you could be cranking out statutory documents. Really, it’s up to you to ensure that you are the former and not the latter. The study … is hard. _Very_ hard. Don’t get me wrong - the material itself is not too taxing. Certainly easier than the stuff I did in later years at university. But:[list=1] [li]You are working full time. Don’t underestimate this.[/li][li]There is a _lot_ of material to cover. I don’t know what country you’re from, but to illustrate with a UK example: the exams we do at age 17 here are called A-levels. We do three or four of them with a two year session leading up to that. Well, the amount of material in an actuarial exam is that of somewhere between one and two A-levels. In my first year, I did eight of these. Now that is unusual, but four or five is not.[/li][li]It takes a long time. Average qualification in the UK is seven years post graduate. In that time, you are making a life for yourself. Many people just can’t cope with the sacrifice and give up after a couple of years.[/li][li]Exams have a pass rate well less than 50%. That means that you _will_ fail some exams. This is quite soul destroying, especially when you knew the material very well and you are used to acing all exams.[/li][li]On the other hand, feeling like you are acquiring expertise in financial matters is great. And you are certainly taught how to think critically. The training really is second to none. And in this country we get a day a week to study![/li] The lifestyle … is pretty good actually. Most people I know became an actuary because you get obscene amounts of money and still don’t have to work much beyond 9-5. It is rather insular though. I met my girlfriend at work. So she’s an actuary. My sister is one. My gf’s brother is one. Several old uni friends are actuaries. My old housemates are also. My housemate/uni friend’s girlfriend is an actuary. Actuaries do have a propensity to date actuaries. But that is because (despite what you may have heard) actuaries are actually pretty cool people. There are _tons_ of young ones, all of whom earn way too much money and have plenty of free time (exam time aside). And they will all have similar backgrounds, with good numerate degrees, so there is a certain meeting of minds. Personally, I’d recommend it to anyone. There. Any questions, just fire away. pan ---
**Author:** ![whatami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@whatami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatami)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/9 "2001-11-27T17:30:59Z")
My Mom is an actuary with a small company. There are oh…maybe 15 employees. They deal with Defined benefit and Defined Contribution pension plans. She really likes her job. The test do take all your life. The money is pretty good. But, actuaries, for some reason, _like math_!!! Seriously, the people in her company are just as boring and exciting as the people at my dads work(chemical plant). It all depends on who you are, not what you do. good luck! ---
**Author:** ![abidude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@abidude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abidude)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/10 "2001-11-27T17:58:05Z")
Thanks kabbes!! Is the math used any more complex than statistics? I’m in business statistics right now and it is pretty manageable to me. Plus, do you have to draw from your knowledge to figure out which formulae, etc. to use or is each “project” basically the same? I ask because I think that I would work better in an environment where the methods are set and I don’t have to rely on myself to figure out too much (not that I’m lazy it’s jus that I prefer direction). On a superficial level, are the actuaries you guys know “nerdy”? I couldn’t handle being stuck in a job with a bunch of people who never go out and unwind. ---
**Author:** ![Richard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Richard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/11 "2001-11-27T19:45:40Z")
I was a math major, and took the second of the preliminary actuarial exams because there was a prize for the best score. I won, and was recruited by a number of insurance companies. As best as I can tell, that prize is nearly always won by a math major who probably has no interest in being an actuary. I thought about pointing that out to them, but I figured maybe their intention was to try to attract the attention of some math majors who might not otherwise consider the actuarial profession. Anyway, one of the things that was mentioned to me several times during my interviews was that most of the presidents and vice presidents of insurance companies came through the actuarial ranks. This was about 45 years ago, so it may no longer be true, but you might want to consider that. (I didn’t take any of the jobs.) ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/12 "2001-11-28T10:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by abidude \* > Thanks kabbes!! Hey, ain’t nothin’. > [@](#): > > Is the math used any more complex than statistics? I’m in business statistics right now and it is pretty manageable to me. Well that rather depends what you mean by statistics! I think that my colleague who has a PhD in stats would probably take issue with that statement! There is a reasonable amount of statistics involved, but there is other maths too. For the exams at least, you have to be fairly handy with an integral. In general you must be comfortable with the building blocks of maths - calculus and statistics in particular. Things like difference and differential equations rear their ugly heads for example. > [@](#): > > Plus, do you have to draw from your knowledge to figure out which formulae, etc. to use or is each “project” basically the same? I ask because I think that I would work better in an environment where the methods are set and I don’t have to rely on myself to figure out too much (not that I’m lazy it’s jus that I prefer direction). As I said above, there are is _wide_ variety of jobs available. If you want to work somewhere with set methods, you can do so easily. Any pensions consultancy will be crying out for people to do precisely that. On the other hand, it isn’t too difficult to find somewhere that requires a bit of personal thought as well. > [@](#): > > On a superficial level, are the actuaries you guys know “nerdy”? I couldn’t handle being stuck in a job with a bunch of people who never go out and unwind. _Some_ of the senior people seem rather nerdy. But for the main, the students are the same as any other group of young people. Some like to go out every night and get slaughtered, others are married and settled at home. There honestly isn’t a typical student actuary. I’d say actually that young trainee actuaries have it better than most others simply because any actuarial firm will tend to employ upwards of a dozen trainee actuaries at once. This gives you plenty of scope to play sport, go out and generally socialise. It’s a bit like being in college. pan ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/13 "2001-11-28T14:26:24Z")
My boyfriend’s father is a principle (principal?) in an actuarial firm (Towers-Perrin). I don’t think he even does much work anymore - just travels and courts overseas clients or has lunches with local clients. FTR, he isn’t a young single - he’s a middle-aged married man. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/14 "2001-11-28T15:02:18Z")
Having met Kabbes, may I add that he is so square you could measure angles off him 😉 bwahahahahaha… ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/15 "2001-11-28T15:12:38Z")
Oh yes - laugh it up chutney boy. I bet you can’t submit a logical proof of that piece of hyperbole. Hah - worst insult EVAR. pan ---
**Author:** ![abidude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@abidude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abidude)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/16 "2001-11-28T15:54:37Z")
Kabbes– Do you work on your own pace or are there strict deadlines? Where I work now (part time) people are playing Freecell and surfing message boards for half the day. Also, was it hard to find a job? Is the studying basically taking mock tests or reading? Thanks for your help man. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/17 "2001-11-28T16:01:59Z")
let x= Kabbes personality let y equal all values of x where x=0 plotting this, we get: Y I I I I I I I I I I\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ x as you can see, as there is no values for y, x=0 therefore, Kabbes is a great big poopy head. Quad Errant Demonstratum. Ergo, I rock. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/18 "2001-11-29T10:49:51Z")
“Quod Erat Demonstrandum” actually **Twisty**. You’re proof has an error. Also I think you meant to say “all values of y for which x\>0”. Hah! **abidude** : > [@](#): > > Do you work on your own pace or are there strict deadlines? Where I work now (part time) people are playing Freecell and surfing message boards for half the day. Both. Lloyds of London - the largest insurance body in the world - works on a calendar year basis. So at work we’re now into year-end work. And boy, are there deadlines! At other times of the year, it can be very slow. We are then indulged to take it easy. Studywise, you have exams twice a year. These are pretty damn effective deadlines. You’re employer then may set you further study goals or they may not. Depends on the employer. > [@](#): > > Also, was it hard to find a job? Well, not for me. And not in general - actuarial students are in _very_ short supply. Then once you’re in, the world is the mollusc of your choice. I decided to move jobs recently and firms were tripping over eachother trying to persuade me to come. > [@](#): > > Is the studying basically taking mock tests or reading? Twice yearly exams. Lots of reading for them. Mock exams during the study sessions, which you may or may not take. Tutorials that need work prepared for. Don’t expect to coast these exams - before starting I’d never got less than an A in any exam in my life, got a good mathematics degree from Cambridge and was pretty damn confident and willing to work _hard_ at the sudy. I’ve just failed one of the exams for the third time. > [@](#): > > Thanks for your help man. Nothing. Always willing to help someone looking for advice in an area I know something about. Thank **Twisty** - I never normally read GQ and only picked up this thread from a weekly vanity search! pan ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anybody-know-an-actuary-or-are-one/95470/19 "2001-11-29T10:51:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > “Quod Erat Demonstrandum” actually **Twisty**. **You’re** proof has an error. And so **Gaudere’s** Law strikes again.