# Anyone a fan of Vernor Vinge? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156 "2010-11-18T22:21:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/21 "2010-11-19T15:14:56Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > For an author with only seven novels out, he has a very high hit rate for winning the Hugo for best novel. > Three have won, and another two were on the ballot. Only his two early novels, Tatja Grimm’s World (1969) and The Witling (1976) didn’t make the nominations. I’ve loved just about everything I’ve read by him, except for those two novels. Yes, even Rainbows End. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/22 "2010-11-19T15:20:44Z")
> [@MilTan](#): > > I’ve only read _A Fire Upon the Deep_ and _A Deepness in the Sky_, but I absolutely love them both – I count them among my favorite sci-fi books. I seem to be in the minority in preferring _Deepness_ to _Fire_, though. I liked \*Deepness \*better, too. Those are the only two of his novels I’ve read, but I intend to read more. I’ve been trying to catch up with the last decade of Hugo nominees. I’ve just started my first Charles Stross book. So far I like Michael Flynn, Michael Chabon, Neal Stephenson, Naomi Novik and Peter Watts, but I don’t like John Scalzi or Robert J. Sawyer. I’ve always liked Connie Willis and Lois McMaster Bujold. I liked Robert Charles Wilson’s _Spin_, and I’m meaning to read more from him. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/23 "2010-11-19T16:06:28Z")
> [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](#): > > I liked Robert Charles Wilson’s _Spin_, and I’m meaning to read more from him. Whatever you do, avoid his _Darwinia_, which has an awesome initial premise and then goes very very very badly off the tracks about halfway through. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/24 "2010-11-19T16:41:44Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’ve searched for info on this before but couldn’t find anything. Where did you read about it? I saw it on his Wikipedia page, citing an interview he gave at a Con. [Here’s the interview](http://www.norwescon.org/archives/norwescon33/vingeinterview.htm), where he clearly talks about the sequel to _Fire_ that he is finishing. I don’t know where Wikipedia got the release date from, as it isn’t cited. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/25 "2010-11-19T16:54:13Z")
Based on what you’re all saying, I’ll try some others of his. With regard to Robert Charles Wilson–Try _Julian Comstock_. Good stuff. I liked _Darwinia_ as well, but Tom Scud is right that it goes of the rails. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/26 "2010-11-19T23:56:53Z")
Thanks for replies! It’s good to know that Dr. Vinge has such a fan-base. He was a pretty good teacher as well. I remember he won his first Hugo in the first year of my master’s program, after being nominated twice and falling short. Until this thread though, I still thought of writing as his side job. Now I’m curious to read some more of his work. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/27 "2010-11-20T01:47:23Z")
I read “Long Shot,” a fantastic short story by Vernor Vinge, in a collection when I was 12 years old or so. (I actually figured out who the author was years later here on the SDMB.) As a freshman in college, I read the serial version of “Marooned in Realtime” in _Analog_. I should track down the prequel one of these days…but hey, it’s only been 24 years since then, after all. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/28 "2010-11-20T06:20:45Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I liked _Darwinia_ as well, but Tom Scud is right that it goes of the rails. I dunno. I didn’t feel that _Darwinia_ went off the rails so much as it went off in a completely unexpected direction. To anyone looking for a good introduction to Wilson, I’d recommend _The Harvest_. It’s an unusual end-of-the-world story. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/29 "2010-11-20T07:31:06Z")
For me, _The Peace War_ was pretty good in spots, but overall weak; great ideas, but uneven storytelling. Then I read _A Fire Upon The Deep_ and was totally hooked. Then I was pleasantly surprised at how much _A Deepness in the Sky_ surpassed it – awesome book. In the interim, I read _Marooned in Realtime_ and loved the angle of a murder mystery spanning thousands of years, great stuff! OTOH, I hated _Rainbow End_. Not an original idea in it, and it was written long past when being characters being “connected” 24/7 was innovative. I struggled to finish that book, and I’m not happy I persevered. ---
**Author:** ![Lethal\_Babydoll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@Lethal\_Babydoll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lethal_Babydoll)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/30 "2010-11-21T16:58:24Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I like him. Very good writer. I found you really can’t go wrong reading hugo winning stuff. It is voted on by readers and not publishers, after all. The nomination are good to look at as a guide for discoving books. I’ve discovered several that way, most notably to me [The Inverted World](http://www.amazon.com/Inverted-World-Review-Books-Classics/dp/1590172698/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1290358417&sr=1-1) and [The Ragged Astronauts](http://www.amazon.com/Ragged-Astronauts-Bob-Shaw/dp/0671654055/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290358487&sr=1-1). The only 4 time best novel winner other than Heinlin is Bujold, who i don’t care for but many obviously do ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/31 "2010-11-22T20:54:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _A Fire Upon the Deep_ was good, but the ending a bit depressing to me I loved that book, quite epic in it’s scope. I did though find the ending a bit uplifting somehow at the same time as being slightly sad. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/32 "2010-11-22T21:13:54Z")
I read A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky, and enjoyed them. I really liked in A Fire Upon the Deep the idea of an individual mind emerging from a pack, but was disappointed about how utterly human the mind is. Perhaps he was trying to make a point that minds are similar even when generated in different ways, but I didn’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/33 "2010-11-23T05:29:58Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I really liked in A Fire Upon the Deep the idea of an individual mind emerging from a pack, but was disappointed about how utterly human the mind is. Perhaps he was trying to make a point that minds are similar even when generated in different ways, but I didn’t buy it. Really? A main plot point was Flenser’s villainous personality eventually being supplanted by the Teacher personality, because Flenser was forced the take on the Teacher members when his other members were lost (and eventually declared dead). This doesn’t scream “non-human mind” issues to you? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/34 "2010-11-23T11:29:28Z")
BTW _Fire_ is objectively better than _Deepness_. 😉 Better plotting, better writing, more interesting speculations about what aliens can be like, and more emotional punch to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/35 "2010-11-23T14:07:51Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Really? A main plot point was Flenser’s villainous personality eventually being supplanted by the Teacher personality, because Flenser was forced the take on the Teacher members when his other members were lost (and eventually declared dead). This doesn’t scream “non-human mind” issues to you? What I mean is that the thought processes and motivations were identical to the human mind. The dialog and thoughts of these characters were indistinguishable from dialog and thoughts from human characters. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/36 "2010-11-23T14:34:33Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > What I mean is that the thought processes and motivations were identical to the human mind. The dialog and thoughts of these characters were indistinguishable from dialog and thoughts from human characters. [spoiler]I dunno, there was a lot of _superficial_ sameness - which is what you’d expect: aliens may be alien but we are all animals together - social animals would be superficially similar, wherever they happened to be from. OTOH, while pursuing human-like goals - power over others, creativity, etc. - they often employ non-human means - like attempting to extend their “self” with incest. I liked the handling of the Tines. Also, the same book depicted aliens who were well and truly alien in motive and act - those strange creatures they come across in their habitats. What I thought less successful was the handling of those plant-creatures, which I thought unnecesarily unrealistic.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/37 "2010-11-23T16:13:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > What I thought less successful was the handling of those plant-creatures, which I thought unnecesarily unrealistic. Unrealistic in what sense? The skroderiders were explicitly an artificially created species (or, at least, one whose evolution was artificially manipulated), which seems to neatly explain away any implausibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/38 "2010-11-23T16:42:46Z")
> [@MilTan](#): > > Unrealistic in what sense? The skroderiders were explicitly an artificially created species (or, at least, one whose evolution was artificially manipulated), which seems to neatly explain away any implausibilities. I know, but the species seemed to have too many bizzare drawbacks to make a lot of sense as a wide-ranging sparefaring species - or at least, it seemed a trifle jarring to have a space pilot who occasionally just forgets what s/he/it’s doing. The Tines, in contrast, worked well to my mind - they had drawbacks it is true, but also advantages. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/39 "2010-11-23T16:52:39Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I know, but the species seemed to have too many bizzare drawbacks to make a lot of sense as a wide-ranging sparefaring species - or at least, it seemed a trifle jarring to have a space pilot who occasionally just forgets what s/he/it’s doing. The Tines, in contrast, worked well to my mind - they had drawbacks it is true, but also advantages. Eh - that didn’t seem all that unreasonable to me. Skroderiders have perfectly functional long-term memory - it’s just that their short-term memory is crud, which is why they use their skrodes as memory prostheses. I expect skroderider pilots train extensively on a very simple concept: When in doubt, consult your skrode _immediately_. Not so different, in principle, from the use of checklists in-flight by human aviators. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156/40 "2010-11-23T17:00:01Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Eh - that didn’t seem all that unreasonable to me. Skroderiders have perfectly functional long-term memory - it’s just that their short-term memory is crud, which is why they use their skrodes as memory prostheses. I expect skroderider pilots train extensively on a very simple concept: When in doubt, consult your skrode _immediately_. Not so different, in principle, from the use of checklists in-flight by human aviators. [spoiler]Fair enough, it just struck me as jarring that a major species would have such an odd and inherent drawback. Yes, I know that they were engineered that way, but otherwise - how could a species lacking in short-term memory evolve? And if this was a product of their prosthesis - why design it that way? I know this is explained by a revelation later. But in reading the book for the first time, they just didn’t seem that likely.[/spoiler] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-a-fan-of-vernor-vinge/561156.md?page=1)