# Anyone care to vote what happens next? \[Israel and Palestine\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 4, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285 "2011-06-04T03:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/1 "2011-06-04T03:53:23Z")
[Palestinian protest groups organize broader marches on Israeli borders for Sunday](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-protest-groups-organize-broader-marches-on-israeli-borders-for-sunday/2011/06/02/AGxn5LIH_story_1.html) - More will die as hundreds storm Israel’s borders. Hopefully no bombs will be strapped to chests. [500 Palestinians set for mass ‘fly-in’ to B-G Airport](http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=223450) - Since Palestinians can only enter via Jordan, I suspect they will be turned away. Unless they aren’t really Palestinians…but I still think they’ll be denied entry. Alice Walker (of _The Color Purple_) [is on the American boat](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/world/middleeast/02flotilla.html) for the next publicity stunt. It’s called “The Audacity of Hope”. wtfmate They are carrying letters to Palestinians. Israel said it will board the ships who attempt to block the flotilla. (Can’t imagine that one is going to fight them, though.) I wonder if Obama will comment on this? Can’t imagine that will help his poll numbers. The last flotilla resulted in deaths (including Israelis) and a UN inquiry. The aid groups refused to let the IDF deliver the goods. Hamas refused to pick them up, anyway. Supposedly Khalidi [is helping raise funds](http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/144733) for the American boat. > [@](#): > > While Khalidi will help raise money for the initiative, he said he does not plan to sail on the ship. > > Khalidi wrote in an e-mail over the weekend that while he had not known that Obama’s book would be the inspiration for the ship’s name when he signed on as a sponsor, he does not view it as a potential embarrassment for Obama. > > “If the name is a problem for the administration it can simply insist publicly that Israel lift the siege: end of problem, end of embarrassment,” Khalidi wrote in the e-mail . I hope this ends well. Peacefully, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/2 "2011-06-04T10:43:29Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I hope this ends well. Peacefully, I mean. I hope Israel will embrace multiculturalism and let Arabs return to their homes as proud citizens of a new pluralistic Israel-Palestine. I am not ironic, I really think it is the only solution to that seemingly everlasting conflict. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/3 "2011-06-04T15:19:29Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > I hope Israel will embrace multiculturalism and let Arabs return to their homes as proud citizens of a new pluralistic Israel-Palestine. I am not ironic, I really think it is the only solution to that seemingly everlasting conflict. I hope so too. We can see how well this works in Muslim countries where there is freedom of speech and religion, and the civil rights of all people are respected. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/4 "2011-06-04T15:25:35Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > I hope so too. We can see how well this works in Muslim countries where there is freedom of speech and religion, and the civil rights of all people are respected. I reaaly cant tell if you’re wooshing here. I’d have to take a look at your previous posts but I’m too tired and all. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > [Palestinian protest groups organize broader marches on Israeli borders for Sunday](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-protest-groups-organize-broader-marches-on-israeli-borders-for-sunday/2011/06/02/AGxn5LIH_story_1.html) - More will die as hundreds storm Israel’s borders. It’s not the first time I hear of some sort of crazed fear of masses of (usually unarmed) Palestinians showing up at Israel’s frontiers. Is it a proper meme? An ancient one or something recent? I’d prefer answers by people without entertained paranoid delusions, if that’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/5 "2011-06-04T16:05:39Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I reaaly cant tell if you’re wooshing here. I’d have to take a look at your previous posts but I’m too tired and all. Yeah, I was being sarcastic. I love the idea of Israel believing a multicultural Israel could arise if Palestinians came back and comprised a majority. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/6 "2011-06-04T17:04:35Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > I hope Israel will embrace multiculturalism and let Arabs return to their homes as proud citizens of a new pluralistic Israel-Palestine. I am not ironic, I really think it is the only solution to that seemingly everlasting conflict. The generation that actually _remembers_ these homes is more likely to have died off by then. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/7 "2011-06-05T16:38:01Z")
[Here’s your answer.](http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2011/06/05/syrian_tv_says_4_dead_in_israeli_border_gunfire/?p1=News_links) > [@](#): > > Israeli troops have fired a barrage of tear gas canisters to break up a large crowd of pro-Palestinian protesters gathered along the Syrian frontier. > > Hundreds of people fled the area in panic, while some 20 people lay on the ground. > > The crowd gathered on the Syrian side of the border early Sunday and remained there throughout the day. > > After live gunfire failed to clear the area, troops fired a series of tear gas canisters at the crowd. Syrian officials say at least 14 people have been killed in unrest throughout the day. > > … > > Things were relatively calm on Israel’s other borders on Sunday. > > About 400 Gazans hoisting Palestinian flags and posters gathered near the main passenger crossing into Israel, but Hamas riot police prevented them from marching toward the crossing. > > At the West Bank’s main crossing into Jerusalem, several hundred Palestinian young people tried to approach the checkpoint. They threw stones at Israeli forces, who responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. No injuries were reported. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/8 "2011-06-05T18:30:53Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > I hope Israel will embrace multiculturalism and let Arabs return to their homes as proud citizens of a new pluralistic Israel-Palestine. I am not ironic, I really think it is the only solution to that seemingly everlasting conflict. At present, there are [5.7 million Israeli Jews;](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#Demographics) [1.5 million Israeli Arabs;](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel) and [3.7 million Palestinians in the Territories.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people) A United Israel-Palestine would have roughly 5.2 million Palestinians to 5.7 million Jews – still a Jewish majority, barely, but the Arabs might outbreed them yet, and might force through their own Law of Return; and there are about [4.7 million Palestinian refugees or descendants of refugees worldwide.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugees) One sees why many Israelis are extremely reluctant to consider a one-state solution? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/9 "2011-06-05T18:37:31Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Yeah, I was being sarcastic. I love the idea of Israel believing a multicultural Israel could arise if Palestinians came back and comprised a majority. Well, that **would** be a multicultural Israel. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/10 "2011-06-05T19:18:27Z")
I’m waiting for Palestinian leaders to realize that an MKL- or Gandhi-esque campaign of non-violent resistance will pretty much destroy the credibility of both the settlers and the Israeli government if they continue to react to that new movement as they have to past ones. That’s pretty much the major thing that would end the whole deadlock: Palestinian non-violent resistance coming up against the IDF. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/11 "2011-06-05T19:20:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, that **would** be a multicultural Israel. Not for long. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/12 "2011-06-05T19:34:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Not for long. You don’t **really** believe, do you, that as soon as the Palestinians got into the majority they would go Rwanda on your asses? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/13 "2011-06-05T19:35:25Z")
Yes. Yes I do. As do most Israelis, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/14 "2011-06-05T20:54:26Z")
Israel _is_ multicultural already. Yemeni Jews, Russian Jews, Bedouin, Christian, Orthodox, Muslim, Druze, secular, kibbutznik, etc. But I think that armed Palestinians rushing the borders [while throwing Molotov cocktails](http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=223726) aids Alessan’s case, eh? There’s no _peaceful_ about it. > [@](#): > > A second demonstration was observed on the Syrian border in Kunetra, where 200 to 300 demonstrators amassed. Four land mines exploded in the area after Syrian rioters threw Molotov cocktails at IDF forces. The cocktails exploded in a field, starting a fire which then set off the mines on the Syrian side of the border. The IDF was unaware of the number of casualties caused by the explosions. Channel 2 reported that the IDF arrested three Syrian infiltrators attempting to cross the border into Israel at Kunetra. What I don’t understand is why anyone would try to cross a border when they’re being warned that they’ll get shot. And who throws a rock at a guy with a gun, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/15 "2011-06-05T22:23:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yes. Yes I do. As do most Israelis, in my experience. Hence leading to policies and actions that could only help ensure that’s what \*does \*happen. The greater tragedy being, of course, that it would have been easily foreseen and could have been prevented, by a people willing to learn from history. Or, you could just watch _The Birth of a Nation_ for an analogy. Now, what happens if the border is along the Jordan instead of the Wall? Anything different? **CP** , perhaps the answer to your question is “Someone who believes they have no better choices”. Would such a belief be reasonably based on fact? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/16 "2011-06-06T00:58:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **CP** , perhaps Hey! That’s _my_ moniker! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/17 "2011-06-06T03:24:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Hence leading to policies and actions that could only help ensure that’s what \*does \*happen. The greater tragedy being, of course, that it would have been easily foreseen and could have been prevented, by a people willing to learn from history. Or, you could just watch _The Birth of a Nation_ for an analogy. > > Now, what happens if the border is along the Jordan instead of the Wall? Anything different? > **CP** , perhaps the answer to your question is “Someone who believes they have no better choices”. Would such a belief be reasonably based on fact? Since they’ve been throwing rocks since before Israel was a state, I’d say the answer is, “Because they were taught.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/18 "2011-06-06T04:49:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Hence leading to policies and actions that could only help ensure that’s what \*does \*happen. The greater tragedy being, of course, that it would have been easily foreseen and could have been prevented, by a people willing to learn from history. Or, you could just watch _The Birth of a Nation_ for an analogy. > > Now, what happens if the border is along the Jordan instead of the Wall? Anything different? > ? I have no idea what you’re talking about. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **CP** , perhaps the answer to your question is “Someone who believes they have no better choices”. Would such a belief be reasonably based on fact? I people rioting up north were a bunch of patsies sent there by the Syrians to distract their people from the atrocities they’re committing as we talk. They’d be much better off protesting against their own government, demanding equal rights for Palestinians in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/19 "2011-06-06T05:11:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You don’t **really** believe, do you, that as soon as the Palestinians got into the majority they would go Rwanda on your asses? Heck, trying to reintegrate the Palestinians would just turn this from an endless border war to an endless civil war. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/20 "2011-06-06T14:39:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have no idea what you’re talking about. :dubious: It seems like you never do, when anyone raises the question of where the Israel-Palestine border **should** be. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285.md?page=2)