# Anyone care to vote what happens next? \[Israel and Palestine\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 4, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285 "2011-06-04T03:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/21 "2011-06-06T14:43:25Z")
Basically following the Green Line, with most of East Jerusalem and surrounding areas, the Etzyon Block and maybe Ariel remaining in Israeli hands - essentially, the route of the Fence - and everything else evacuated. Demilitarized (at least at start), with some sort of minimal security presence in the Jordan Valley. Right of Return to the West Bank but not to Israel. Happy? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/22 "2011-06-06T14:45:04Z")
Do you mean the Palestinians evacuated from Israeli areas or the settlers evacuated from Palestinian areas, or both? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/23 "2011-06-06T14:46:22Z")
Settlers. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/24 "2011-06-06T14:48:03Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m waiting for Palestinian leaders to realize that an MKL- or Gandhi-esque campaign of non-violent resistance will pretty much destroy the credibility of both the settlers and the Israeli government if they continue to react to that new movement as they have to past ones. That’s pretty much the major thing that would end the whole deadlock: Palestinian non-violent resistance coming up against the IDF. People have been waiting for a Palestinian Gandhi for about 50 years. Some people point to IDF shooting teens throwing rocks as evidence that it wouldn’t work with the Israelis the way it worked with the Brits or Americans. Unfortunately I am not aware of anyone ever trying. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/25 "2011-06-06T14:50:23Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > What I don’t understand is why anyone would try to cross a border when they’re being warned that they’ll get shot. And who throws a rock at a guy with a gun, anyway? If the threat of getting shot is supposed to stop civil disobediance than civil disobediance would never have gotten off the ground. Who shoots a guy who is throwing rocks anyway? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/26 "2011-06-06T14:52:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Who shoots a guy who is throwing rocks anyway? That’s how David took out Goliath, is it not? Looks like it hurts like hell from video I’ve seem. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/27 "2011-06-06T14:52:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Basically following the Green Line, with most of East Jerusalem and surrounding areas, the Etzyon Block and maybe Ariel remaining in Israeli hands - essentially, the route of the Fence - and everything else evacuated. Demilitarized (at least at start), with some sort of minimal security presence in the Jordan Valley. Right of Return to the West Bank but not to Israel. > > Happy? Perfectly. And so would the Palestinians be if you offered them that, though they would never admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/28 "2011-06-06T14:53:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Who shoots a guy who is throwing rocks anyway? Ever been hit in the head with a rock? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/29 "2011-06-06T14:55:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Perfectly. And so would the Palestinians be if you offered them that, though they would never admit it. My position is pretty much identical to that of the three major Israeli parties, including th Likud. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/30 "2011-06-06T20:52:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > My position is pretty much identical to that of the three major Israeli parties, including th Likud. I thought Likud had some kind of platform promise never to recognize an independent Palestine, or something; it came up in one of the recent threads. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/31 "2011-06-06T20:58:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I thought Likud had some kind of platform promise never to recognize an independent Palestine, or something; it came up in one of the recent threads. But Alessan was talking about Israel’s borders, not an independent and sovereign Palestine. **Damuri Ajashi** , if you threw a rock at me and I had a gun in my hand, I may be tempted to shoot, but I probably wouldn’t, since I don’t load my guns with rubber bullets like the IDF. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/32 "2011-06-06T21:08:46Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > **Damuri Ajashi** , if you threw a rock at me and I had a gun in my hand, I may be tempted to shoot, but I probably wouldn’t, since I don’t load my guns with rubber bullets like the IDF. Somehow, those rubber bullets appear to be deadly. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/33 "2011-06-06T21:16:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Somehow, those rubber bullets appear to be deadly. How many Palestinians have died as a result of a rubber bullet? Surely not as many as Muslim Israelis who died as a result of suicide attacks.\* \*I’m not sure how many Arab Israelis have died as a result of Palestinian attacks, but it does happen. Still, it’s not like the IDF uses Palestinians for target practice. I’d prefer they just used paintball guns, actually. With neon colors. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/34 "2011-06-06T21:17:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Somehow, those rubber bullets appear to be deadly. Yes, they are bullets, whatever they are made of, coming out of a large firearm. I believe it is a compromise between hurting badly enough to make someone quit and killing them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/35 "2011-06-06T21:19:37Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > How many Palestinians have died as a result of a rubber bullet? Surely not as many as Muslim Israelis who died as a result of suicide attacks. I dunno, but some Syrians or Palestinians or whoever were killed at the border just this week. Were the IDF using rubber bullets? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/36 "2011-06-06T21:25:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I dunno, but some Syrians or Palestinians or whoever were killed at the border just this week. Were the IDF using rubber bullets? No, and they shouldn’t. The Syrian government let them go to the border (which is usually not allowed) and they ignored warnings (and there were plenty) and the tear gas and kept advancing - even cutting barbed wire fences. Whoever put forth a step at that point didn’t mind dying. There were hundreds, if not a thousand or more, protestors at the border. That wasn’t the issue. The IDF troops didn’t _shoot at protestors_, they shot at border jumpers - and some of those so-called ‘protestors’ had weapons. \*\* I’m pretttttttttttttttty sure if I threw a Molotov cocktail at a Denver police officer, he’d shoot me.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/37 "2011-06-06T21:29:24Z")
> [@](#): > > The Israeli military said it used live fire only after firing warning shots into the air and issuing verbal warnings to protesters to stay away. > > Protesters waved Palestinian flags and threw rocks and trash over the fence, and the sporadic pops of Israeli gunfire were heard throughout the day. The wounded were taken away on stretchers by groups of young men. > > “\*\*We were trying to cut the barbed wire \*\*when the Israeli soldiers began shooting directly at us,” Ghayath Awad, a 29-year-old Palestinian who had been shot in the waist, told the AP at the hospital. > > Residents of Majdal Shams, ethnic Druse who remain Syrian citizens while living on the Israeli side of the frontier, watched the protest from rooftops, booing each time the military tried to speak and cheering on the protesters. **When troops fired tear gas, a crowd of residents — some holding Syrian or Palestinian flags — began to scream and hurl stones from rooftops at the nearby forces. Israeli anti-riot police fired tear gas** and moved into the town. Village elders with thick mustaches argued with the forces, but there were no signs of violence. > > Throughout the day, ambulances raced to the hospital in the Syrian border town of Quneitra with the wounded and dead. **State-run Syrian TV** said 20 people were killed, including a woman and teenage boy, and 325 were wounded, 12 critically. Hospital officials confirmed the casualty count, providing names of all the dead. [Perspective.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110605/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/38 "2011-06-06T22:11:55Z")
Look, the border between Israel and Syria is a hostile border - Israel and Syria are in a state of war. Any person attempting to cross the border, either way, in or out of uniform, cab expect to be shot. Legally, it’s as clear-cut as can be. Besides, most of them died after throwing a firebomb into a clearly marked minefield, which means that they died at the hands of Charles Darwin, not the IDF. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/39 "2011-06-06T23:19:46Z")
Well, I don’t think anything “happens next,” because Syria is too preoccupied with other matters right now to rattle a saber at Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/40 "2011-06-06T23:30:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, I don’t think anything “happens next,” because Syria is too preoccupied with other matters right now to rattle a saber at Israel. Syria’s rattling a saber at Israel and inciting border protests because it is so preoccupied. They’re encouraging anti-Israeli sentiment to deflect hostility against the regime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285.md?page=3)