# Anyone care to vote what happens next? \[Israel and Palestine\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 4, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285 "2011-06-04T03:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/41 "2011-06-06T23:38:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Syria’s rattling a saber at Israel and inciting border protests because it is so preoccupied. They’re encouraging anti-Israeli sentiment to deflect hostility against the regime. [Doesn’t seem to be working.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/06/201166152649439258.html) ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/42 "2011-06-06T23:40:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, I don’t think anything “happens next,” because Syria is too preoccupied with other matters right now to rattle a saber at Israel. Since the title had\* [Israel and Palestine]\*, I meant the state of current affairs re: proposed unilateral ‘statehood’. The Arab world (+Iran) loves to point fingers at Israel while dodging its own grievous errors. I guess it’s not limited to Arab nations. France isn’t exactly in love with Israel _or_ its own conservative Muslim population. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/43 "2011-06-06T23:42:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Doesn’t seem to be working.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/06/201166152649439258.html) No, but they shoot people protesting their government while bending the rules so people can protest \*other \*governments and cross borders illegally. Then the Syrian government can cry foul and their state-run TV can make like Israel is just as bad. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/44 "2011-06-07T05:40:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Doesn’t seem to be working.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/06/201166152649439258.html) No, and it’s an interesting little irony. The Syrians have worked so hard for the past 60 years to separate their Palestinians from Syrian society - by denying them citizenship and forcing them to remain in their camps - and it’s reached the point regular Syrians don’t really care about them anymore, now that “real” Syrians are dying. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/45 "2011-06-07T14:41:56Z")
Fra la la la la la la la la. [Syrian Protesters Reportedly Given Money to Take Part in Protests Along Israeli Border](http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/06/07/syrian-protesters-reportedly-paid-thousands-to-take-part-in-protests-along/#ixzz1ObKz7pDe) > [@](#): > > The Reform Party of Syria said intelligence sources told them that the Syrian protesters were poverty-stricken farmers. > > They were paid $1,000 for showing up to the protests and their families would be paid $10,000 if they died, according to [ynetnews.com](http://ynetnews.com). > > A Syrian government newspaper says marches to the border will continue and warns Israel the day will come when thousands of Syrians will return to their occupied villages. > > Israeli forces opened fire on Palestinian and Syrian protesters Sunday, killing as many as 23 people who tried to cross into the Israeli-occupied Syrian Golan Heights. > > The Tishreen newspaper said the march was only an “introduction,” adding Syrians and Palestinians were now determined to recover their territory through resistance. > > It says Israel should not be surprised when 600,000 Syrian refugees march back to their villages and farms from which their families were forcefully uprooted. > > Israel should expect a march “at any time,” it said. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/46 "2011-06-07T14:52:23Z")
Heh, I wonder if such an obvious bare-faced diversionary tactic will work for the Syrian government this time. My guess is that it will not. The Syrians appear too pissed off to be dazzled by the lure of more conflict with Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/47 "2011-06-07T14:55:37Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, I wonder if such an obvious bare-faced diversionary tactic will work for the Syrian government this time. > > My guess is that it will not. The Syrians appear too pissed off to be dazzled by the lure of more conflict with Israel. I’m mildly amused at all of the commentary and op-eds yesterday that blamed Israel for Sunday’s scuffle. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/48 "2011-06-07T15:37:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That’s how David took out Goliath, is it not? Looks like it hurts like hell from video I’ve seem. You have a video of David killing Goliath? The entire point of that story is he killed Goliath with a FUCKING ROCK. Yeah he used a sling but it was such a moonshot that it made its way into the bible of every religion in the region. So tell me, how many Israeli Goliaths have Palestinian youth killed with rocks that it justifies shooting bullets at people throwing rocks? FYI, Israel isn’t the only place with rocks and somehow other security forces manage to keep rock throwing crowds under control without shooting bullets at them. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/49 "2011-06-07T15:38:07Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I’m mildly amused at all of the commentary and op-eds yesterday that blamed Israel for Sunday’s scuffle. While Israel certainly didn’t botch the situation as badly they botched the flotilla incident, I suspect they could have certainly handled it better. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/50 "2011-06-07T15:38:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Ever been hit in the head with a rock? You ever hear of a helmet or riot gear? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/51 "2011-06-07T15:40:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I dunno, but some Syrians or Palestinians or whoever were killed at the border just this week. Were the IDF using rubber bullets? I don’t know if the IDF was using rubber bullets or not, but the term is something of a misnomer. Rubber bullets are pieces of lead wrapped in rubber and while not nearly as deadly as regular bullets, they can and have killed. In fact, more than a few people believe that allowing law enforcement agencies to use them causes more deaths because people are far, far less reluctant to use them than regular firearms. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/52 "2011-06-07T15:45:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You have a video of David killing Goliath? Don’t be silly, it’s VHS. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The entire point of that story is he killed Goliath with a FUCKING ROCK. Yeah he used a sling but it was such a moonshot that it made its way into the bible of every religion in the region. Slings were an infantry weapon in the time of [Xenophon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_%28Xenophon%29). They preferred metal projectiles, but scavenged for stones during the Anabasis. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/53 "2011-06-07T15:48:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Syria’s rattling a saber at Israel and inciting border protests because it is so preoccupied. They’re encouraging anti-Israeli sentiment to deflect hostility against the regime. Yeah, I agree. This is a pretty obvious orchestrated attempt by the Syrian regime to refocus the Syrians on how much they hate Jews. I just hope that anti-Israel sentiment doesn’t get baked into this Arab spring. What these guys don’t realize is that Isreal can be their best friend after they become a democracy even if Israel doesn’t realize it. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/54 "2011-06-07T15:50:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > FYI, Israel isn’t the only place with rocks and somehow other security forces manage to keep rock throwing crowds under control without shooting bullets at them. No, other security forces shoot _regular_ bullets at the protestors. Israel, as always, is showing remarkable restraint in its dealings with protestors. When masses of protestors are gunned down (with standard bullets) in Arab countries, it’s just chalked up as business as usual and people forget about it the next day. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/55 "2011-06-07T16:24:10Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Don’t be silly, it’s VHS. > > Slings were an infantry weapon in the time of [Xenophon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_%28Xenophon%29). They preferred metal projectiles, but scavenged for stones during the Anabasis. Yeah, I know what slings are and I know they are weapons. I also know that against riot gear, they are basically useless unless using special projectiles and not just rocks off the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/56 "2011-06-07T19:43:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You ever hear of a helmet or riot gear? You ever hear of using your brain? Don’t attack soldiers. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/57 "2011-06-07T19:52:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah, I know what slings are and I know they are weapons. I also know that against riot gear, they are basically useless unless using special projectiles and not just rocks off the ground. But this wasn’t a riot gear situation. Riot gear, like tear gas and rubber bullets, is designed to disperse crowds. But the soldiers there weren’t just trying to disperse them - they were also trying to prevent them from destroying government property (they were tearing down a border fence) and more importantly, they were trying to prevent them from crossing the border. Dispersing them isn’t enough if they’re going to disperse on the wrong side. I’m sure that they used as little live ammo as possible, if only because every casualty created makes Israel look bad, justly or unjustly. But they had to prevent them from crossing, and if lethal means were the only option, they had to use them. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/58 "2011-06-07T19:53:41Z")
[I doubt this will get Israel anywhere](http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=224088). > [@](#): > > Syrian media reported 23 pro-Palestinian protesters commemorating the beginning of 1967’s Six Day War were killed by IDF soldiers on Sunday while attempting to infiltrate Israel.\*\* The IDF claims that Syria has intentionally exaggerated the number of dead and the Red Cross has been unable to confirm the figures.\*\* but > [@](#): > > Israel’s complaint against Syria came as UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said she was deeply troubled by reports of use of live fire by the IDF against protesters attempting to infiltrate Israel’s border from Syria on Naksa Day. > > “Between 30 and 40 protesters have reportedly been killed by Israeli security forces in the past three weeks,” she said, referencing Syrian reports that 23 were killed on Sunday and 14 were killed on May 15 during Nakba Day in skirmishes on both the Lebanese and Syrian frontiers. “The Government of Israel has a duty to ensure that its security personnel avoid the use of excessive force,” Pillay added. > > “However difficult the circumstances, \*\*the use of live ammunition against allegedly unarmed \*\*protesters, resulting in large numbers of deaths and injuries, inevitably raises the question of unnecessary and excessive use of force,” she stated. Hmm. So when the IDF says that Syria encouraged (and paid) the protestors (who were farmers) and they had weapons, it’s not a big deal, but when state-run Syrian TV says that 20 unarmed and peaceful people were killed, it’s a concern? The Human Rights Council is a fucking joke. Like I’m going to take advice on human rights from a council that has Nigeria, the Russian Federation and Saudi Arabia on it! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/59 "2011-06-07T20:00:52Z")
Here’s a question - why did the Syrian Army (with several thousand troops stationed nearby) just stand by and let the evil Zionists kill them? Whey didn’t they try to protect their Arab bretheren? I wonder if the Syrian public is asking themselves this very question. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/60 "2011-06-07T20:38:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Here’s a question - why did the Syrian Army (with several thousand troops stationed nearby) just stand by and let the evil Zionists kill them? Whey didn’t they try to protect their Arab bretheren? > > I wonder if the Syrian public is asking themselves this very question. If SD can’t manage to think that far, I doubt the largely anti-Israel Syrian population can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285.md?page=4)