# Anyone care to vote what happens next? \[Israel and Palestine\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 4, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285 "2011-06-04T03:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/61 "2011-06-07T20:55:50Z")
I don’t know… there are plenty of people in Syria who are right now studying their government very carefully for any sign of weakness. IMHO, they’ve just been given one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/62 "2011-06-07T21:58:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Here’s a question - why did the Syrian Army (with several thousand troops stationed nearby) just stand by and let the evil Zionists kill them? Whey didn’t they try to protect their Arab bretheren? If the army did intervene, the Syrian government would in effect be admitting they knew this was coming . . . might even have to admit they set it up. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/63 "2011-06-07T22:16:43Z")
Then they’re incompetents. I mean, the Israelis knew they were coming - the beefed-up forces along the border are proof of that. Why didn’t the Syrians? There are only three possible interpretations for the events, as far as the Assad regime is concerned: that they’re incompetent, that they’re cowards, or that they’re cynical manipulators. None of the options make them look very good. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/64 "2011-06-07T22:20:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > There are only three possible interpretations for the events, as far as the Assad regime is concerned: that they’re incompetent, that they’re cowards, or that they’re cynical manipulators. None of the options make them look very good. Has anything EVER made Assad et. al. look good? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/65 "2011-06-07T22:23:47Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Has anything EVER made Assad et. al. look good? Ba’athism, supposedly . . . but I wonder if anyone in Syria even believes in it any more. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/66 "2011-06-07T22:26:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Then they’re incompetents. I mean, the Israelis knew they were coming - the beefed-up forces along the border are proof of that. Why didn’t the Syrians? > > There are only three possible interpretations for the events, as far as the Assad regime is concerned: that they’re incompetent, that they’re cowards, or that they’re cynical manipulators. None of the options make them look very good. Why do we have to choose only one? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/67 "2011-06-07T22:46:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > There are only three possible interpretations for the events, as far as the Assad regime is concerned: that they’re incompetent, that they’re cowards, or that they’re cynical manipulators. None of the options make them look very good. Or, that they’re **rational** enough to want to avoid a situation where you have Israeli and Syrian troops leveling rifles at each other from opposite sides of the border and somebody might actually fire. Any rational leader would try to avoid that, I hope; Allah knows where it would lead. (Whipping up the Palestinians to charge the fence remains indefensible, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/68 "2011-06-08T02:10:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Or, that they’re **rational** enough to want to avoid a situation where you have Israeli and Syrian troops leveling rifles at each other from opposite sides of the border and somebody might actually fire. Any rational leader would try to avoid that, I hope; Allah knows where it would lead. (Whipping up the Palestinians to charge the fence remains indefensible, of course.) It is not lawful for Syrians (or Palestinians in Syria) to breech the ‘buffer zone’. They \*\*let \*\*it happen as they planned it. Alessan’s point was that this was no spontaneous peaceful protest that the big bad IDF troops shot down out of spite and hatred for all that is good and decent about humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/69 "2011-06-08T02:17:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You have a video of David killing Goliath? > > The entire point of that story is he killed Goliath with a FUCKING ROCK. Yeah he used a sling but it was such a moonshot that it made its way into the bible of every religion in the region. > > So tell me, how many Israeli Goliaths have Palestinian youth killed with rocks that it justifies shooting bullets at people throwing rocks? FYI, Israel isn’t the only place with rocks and somehow other security forces manage to keep rock throwing crowds under control without shooting bullets at them. Actually not that I particularly am interested in this debate at all, but a sling dramatically increases the lethality of the stone it throws. Slingers were used en masse in many armies of the ancient world and were exceptionally deadly. Thousands upon thousands of people across the Mediterranean world were killed by slings, not to mention their extensive use in hunting. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/70 "2011-06-08T02:22:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah, I know what slings are and I know they are weapons. I also know that against riot gear, they are basically useless unless using special projectiles and not just rocks off the ground. Yeah luckily no one in the ancient world had armor so slings were never put to the test against it. Anyway, no one is actually using slings firstly and secondly sovereign states have an intrinsic right to repel unwanted persons from their borders. If lethal force is required to do so, that is an ancient right of all sovereign states, in fact tacitly allowing those borders to be penetrated by crowds of potentially dangerous barbarians is usually a sign that a state is coming to an end as an entity. I don’t think ancient slings have fuck all to do with this situation. I do think it is basically completely stupid to act like someone getting killed by a sling was actually a “moonshot.” That was a very common thing, it was considered notable because Goliath was some sort of mythical giant and David was a young man nominally unskilled in warfare using a shepherd’s weapon to kill a gigantic, trained warrior. The idea that the sling isn’t dangerous even against armored enemies is what annoys me, because it’s totally historically inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/71 "2011-06-08T02:56:49Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Anyway, no one is actually using slings The heck they aren’t.[I’ve seen video of it.](http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/05/12/us-mideast-usa-talks-idUSTRE54B3WO20090512) Probably just Israeli propaganda though. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/72 "2011-06-08T08:33:51Z")
[wtf](http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=224109) Since when does the U.N. publicly condemn an action against any religious building by individual citizens? Just when the citizens are Israeli? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/73 "2011-06-08T10:45:39Z")
Since when does the world not condemn terrorist actions against a targeted religious group? When do Israel jingoes \*not \*condemn them - when the perpetrators are Jewish? (Hint: That’s the evidence of your post). ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/74 "2011-06-08T10:54:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Since when does the world not condemn terrorist actions against a targeted religious group? > > When do Israel jingoes \*not \*condemn them - when the perpetrators are Jewish? (Hint: That’s the evidence of your post). Equating some assholes with setting a mosque’s carpet on fire to a guy who blows himself up on a bus is hardly a worthy comparison. :rolleyes: As the article pointed out, the Israeli government condemned the actions. You know? The actions that were done _out of protest re: Israel’s government_?! Good fucking grief. I don’t recall the U.N. responding to Israel’s calls to please prevent the destruction and desecration of Jewish holy sites and synagogues. Gazan synagogues were wrecked and pissed on. Did the U.N. say anything about Joseph’s Tomb, either? I don’t recall. Can we find that one? If they did, did they put the blame on the PA? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285/75 "2011-06-14T16:19:35Z")
[http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelweiss/100092061/breaking-syrian-state-documents-show-assad-orchestrated-nakba-day-raids-on-golan-heights/](http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelweiss/100092061/breaking-syrian-state-documents-show-assad-orchestrated-nakba-day-raids-on-golan-heights/) Apparent evidence the march on the border was orchestrated. With original document in arabic, and full translation. > [@](#): > > ``` > Permission is hereby granted allowing approaching crowds to cross the cease fire line (with Israel) towards the occupied Majdal-Shamms, and to further allow them to engage physically with each other in front of United Nations agents and offices. Furthermore, there is no objection if a few shots are fired in the air. > > ``` > > (snip) > It is essential to ensure that no one carries military identification or a weapon as they enter with a strict emphasis on the peaceful and spontaneous nature of the protest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-care-to-vote-what-happens-next-israel-and-palestine/584285.md?page=3)