# Anyone done the Whole9 30 day challenge (Paleo diet)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836 "2011-05-05T14:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/81 "2011-10-02T15:05:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Again, I see no reason to believe, per se, that eating in a Paleolithic manner is healthier just because it is the nutritional backdrop for most of our evolution, but … do you really think corned beef represents anything like what those early humans ate? I’m a big fan of dairy as an intelligent part of a nutrition plan, but you really think that cheese is “very Paleo”? A Paleolithic diet was likely _not_ all that high in fat. They ate game meat, fish, nuts and seeds, all prepared simply. Not modern farm raised cattle then highly processed. A half pound loin of venison, for example, has a total of under 3 grams of fat, and much of it good omega 3’s. The same cut of beef has 9 grams of fat (three times as much!) and 10% less protein. And corned beef? 48 grams of fat for the same serving size, yeah 16 times the fat of what a Paleolithic human likely had … and 40% less protein in that serving than in the venison. And sodium? Just 3 ounces of corned beef has almost 1000 mg; to get a 1000 mg of sodium in venison you’d need to eat about 4 pounds of it. > > I’m not telling you what you should or should not be eating here, and if this is working for you I am very happy, but no, what are eating is not at all similar to what early humans ate. > > **misterW** , I think you are, to some degree correct, for those who actually eat as early humans ate. Lots of vegetable, fruits, very lean meats, fish, seeds, nuts … fairly easy to lose weight eating like that. Putting on mass would require a conscious effort to up the amount of meats and adding in some higher calorie choices, yes like avocado. That said, with the effort to get adequate daily calories in it is a wonderful bodybuilder dietary plan. And unless one goes all out to get the game meats it can be cheaper to eat that way than the usual American diet. The lean meat cuts are often cheap. I can buy frozen tilapia for virtually nothing. A big bag of frozen boneless skinless chicken breasts can be bought for just a few bucks. Veggies, fruits, nuts … really not much money per serving. I don’t know what the typical american spends on food, but I know what I spend on food, and expense was one of the cons I saw to the paleo diet. Think about it – you’re eliminating the cheapest portion of your diet (bulk rice, beans, lentils, etc.) and replacing that with fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts, which are a lot more expensive. I certainly saw my food expenses go up. Of course if you have been in the habit of buying all sorts of pre-made dinners, etc., who knows, maybe you would see your expenses go down. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/82 "2011-10-02T15:20:21Z")
Sorry for the multipost, but this stands out from that linked article: > [@](#): > > The typical Paleolithic diet compared with the average modern American diet contained 2 to 3 times more fiber, 1.5 to 2.0 times more polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats, 4 times more ω-3 fats, but 60% to 70% less saturated fat. Protein intake was 2 to 3 times higher, and potassium intake was 3 to 4 times higher; however, sodium intake was 4 to 5 times lower. 17 Finally, the Paleolithic diet contained no refined grains and sugars (except for seasonally available honey) … In growing season, abundant fruits, berries, and vegetables were consumed. The one variable on which nearly all nutritional experts can agree is the need for increased intake of fruits and vegetables in our modern diet. We do not fully understand all the health-promoting components of unprocessed whole-plant foods; thus, the only way to ensure the benefits is to consume these foods regularly in their natural and unprocessed state On preview, well yes, bulk rice is cheap. One could capture the nutritional equivalent of Paleo in a vegetarian form and do it much cheaper. Easiest if one is not vegan about it. Add in some nonfat dairy, maybe a few eggs. Lentils and beans, lots of those very cheap foods. You’d need to get your omega 3’s in somehow, either fish oil caps or flax, hemp, pumpkin, or chia seeds in your mix. See [here](http://www.nomeatathlete.com/vegetarian-paleo-diet/) for some ideas. If you want good nutrition you can’t get away from eating real vegetables and fruits … but frozen is fine. But that won’t help you gain weight. You want some concentrated lowfat protein. You’d need to add some extra protein powder after workouts at least. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/83 "2011-10-02T15:42:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Sorry for the multipost, but this stands out from that linked article: > > On preview, well yes, bulk rice is cheap. One could capture the nutritional equivalent of Paleo in a vegetarian form and do it much cheaper. Easiest if one is not vegan about it. Add in some nonfat dairy, maybe a few eggs. Lentils and beans, lots of those very cheap foods. You’d need to get your omega 3’s in somehow, either fish oil caps or flax, hemp, pumpkin, or chia seeds in your mix. See [here](http://www.nomeatathlete.com/vegetarian-paleo-diet/) for some ideas. If you want good nutrition you can’t get away from eating real vegetables and fruits … but frozen is fine. But that won’t help you gain weight. You want some concentrated lowfat protein. You’d need to add some extra protein powder after workouts at least. Well maybe that is the confusion – the paleo diet that I read about was pretty adamant about eliminating grains and legumes. Dairy was also frowned upon. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/84 "2011-10-02T16:01:19Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The “average lifespan” of people who lived prior to the last hundred years of medical advances was dragged way down by the very large number of human beings who never made it to adulthood, expiring sometime between the womb and 18 from a huge number of things. This is true (and the increase in average adult lifespan today compared to relatively ancient times is [not all that huge](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1294277/pdf/jrsocmed00089-0029.pdf)). What commenters on the linked opinion piece are not addressing is the point that, evolutionarily speaking, our gastrointestinal tracts likely have evolved significantly to the point that we are far from our cavemen ancestors in how we process food, and claims that modern diets are bad for us must be examined skeptically in that light. What gets a :dubious: reaction from me is the common view that “the ancients/primitive peoples knew/know something we don’t about health”. Mostly that “knowledge” consisted of how to die prematurely. Rather than do “30-day challenges” (eliminating imaginary “toxins”), adhere to restrictive fad diets, Miracle Supplements or paleo/primitive dietary elements (coconut oil comes to mind), it makes a lot more sense to consume limited calories, eat more plants and exercise regularly. And dammit, one of these days I’m going to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/85 "2011-10-02T16:27:48Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What commenters on the linked opinion piece are not addressing is the point that, evolutionarily speaking, our gastrointestinal tracts likely have evolved significantly to the point that we are far from our cavemen ancestors in how we process food, and claims that modern diets are bad for us must be examined skeptically in that light. In 10000 years? or less, depending on what group we’re talking about? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/86 "2011-10-02T17:22:44Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Well maybe that is the confusion – the paleo diet that I read about was pretty adamant about eliminating grains and legumes. Dairy was also frowned upon. Right. What gets called “paleo” is often misunderstanding what was different about the diet of those times. If you really want to replicate the essentials of that diet you need to concentrate on reproducing those aspects highlighted in the Mayo article: [ul] [li]2-3 times more fiber than the typical Western diet[/li][li]1.5-2 times more polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats[/li][li]4 times more omega-3 fats[/li][li]60% to 70% less saturated fat [/li][li]2-3 more protein[/li][li]more potassium and 4-5 times less sodium intake[/li][li]little refined grains or sugars[/li][li]lots of fruits and vegetables[/li][/ul] Doing that with today’s beef would be virtually impossible. Much more easily accomplished by using some legumes and nonfat dairy as part of the mix. Those particular foods were not common then but they more closely replicate the nutritional balance of the time than today’s beef does. Eat what many are calling “paleo” and you have much less fiber, much less PUFA and MUFA, much less omega 3’s, much much more saturated fat, much more sodium … in short in most measures the opposite of a true replication of Paleolithic nutritional habits. Again, corned beef is not Paleolithic. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/87 "2011-10-02T18:09:33Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Hard to get enough calories to be fat, not hard to get enough to survive. > > And aside from fatty cuts of meat (and the paleo diets that I’ve seen recommend lean meat), where is the plenty of fat? I don’t see someone getting fat on avocados. Your logic continues to confuse. 154 grams of corn (1 cup) = 132 Calories 145 grams of avocado = 276 calories 36 grams of almonds (30) = 208 calories The avocado and the almonds are very Paleo. The corn is absolutely not. And these kinds of numbers are what you will find across the board. Nuts, seeds, and animal products are much better sources of concentrated energy than grains and veges could ever be. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > What gets a :dubious: reaction from me is the common view that “the ancients/primitive peoples knew/know something we don’t about health”. Mostly that “knowledge” consisted of how to die prematurely. I don’t know how you define “common”, but this is not a view I see commonly expressed at all. > [@DSeid](#): > > Again, corned beef is not Paleolithic. > [@Stoid](#): > > (I’m not religiously Paleo, I’m more about the carb restriction in general) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/88 "2011-10-02T18:15:29Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > (Evolution) In 10000 years? or less, depending on what group we’re talking about? [Yes.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29123062/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/human-evolution-kicks-high-gear/) ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/89 "2011-10-02T21:39:01Z")
**DSeid** is correct that many people these days who might call themselves ‘paleo’ are doing and eating very differently than what that Mayo article brands ‘paleo’. My personal definition of a biologically appropriate diet for humans, is in line with [this guy’s.](http://www.archevore.com/get-started/) There’s plenty of room for individual variation and all sorts of foods while keeping to the basic principle of “replicating the evolutionary metabolic milieu”. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/90 "2011-10-02T22:08:28Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Your logic continues to confuse. What is confusing you? I’m saying that the meals that one tends to eat on the paleo diet are lower in calories than non paleo meals (on average). That shouldn’t be confusing. Now, it is possible that I am wrong about how many calories I think are in certain foods. Or maybe the meals that I was eating in my trial paleo period were unusually low in calories. But that is easy enough to find out. No weird twists of logic to sort through. If I’m eating a non paleo meal, I’ll most likely go with: some kind of meat some kind of starch, generally rice, or perhaps pasta some kind of vegetable If I’m eating a paleo meal, I would go with: some kind of meat (ideally some kind of very lean meat) no rice or pasta, since those are not allowed. maybe a yam. a variety of vegetables. Compare the two meals. Pretty similar, although the paleo meat SHOULD have less calories, being leaner. However, with rice or pasta it is pretty easy to consume a good number of calories. For example, 1/2 cup of rice = 340 calories. Not so easy to get that many calories by eating a bunch of vegetables. You tend to start feeling full before you eat too much. Even a yam only has about 115 calories. So, in general, one tends to take in less calories in the paleo diet. I wouldn’t think that assertion would be too surprising; a lot of people use the diet to get lean. Sure, one can come up with individual paleo meals that are pretty rich in calories (ie avocados, nuts), but it is unlikely that you are always eating those foods (nor would paleo peoples, I would imagine). And, with weight gain/loss, it’s the little differences over the long run that add up. And even avocados and nuts can’t compete with modern processed foods/desserts. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/91 "2011-10-02T23:46:32Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Sure, one can come up with individual paleo meals that are pretty rich in calories (ie avocados, nuts), but it is unlikely that you are always eating those foods (nor would paleo peoples, I would imagine). And, with weight gain/loss, it’s the little differences over the long run that add up. And even avocados and nuts can’t compete with modern processed foods/desserts. FWIW, I have been eating a severely carb-restricted diet since March. The foods I eat most often are pork, pork fat, fatty beef, eggs, cheese, cream, butter (veges and eggs) and chicken, with an emphasis on plenty of skin: I love wings. I fry them in lard. Plus peanut butter, at least a couple of tablespoons every day, and other nuts. I’ve lost 40 pounds. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/92 "2011-10-03T00:19:41Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > FWIW, I have been eating a severely carb-restricted diet since March. The foods I eat most often are pork, pork fat, fatty beef, eggs, cheese, cream, butter (veges and eggs) and chicken, with an emphasis on plenty of skin: I love wings. I fry them in lard. Plus peanut butter, at least a couple of tablespoons every day, and other nuts. > > I’ve lost 40 pounds. Nice job : ) But wait a minute; now I’m confused … what is the point you are trying to make again? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/93 "2011-10-03T03:58:49Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Nice job : ) > > But wait a minute; now I’m confused … what is the point you are trying to make again? I’ve been making the point that it makes no sense to say that it’s difficult to get enough/too many calories from a Paleo/carbohydrate restricted diet, given that the foods allowable within that type of diet are very high calorie either because of fat content or because of low moisture content (A pound of spinach vs. a pound of cheese, nuts, beef: vegetables have such a high water content that they are, pound for pound, very low in calories.) Incidental to that point I described my own very high fat diet, which is higher in calories than my low-calorie diet, by quite a bit, yet I’ve lost 40 pounds anyway. Which was my way of gently noting my (well-established elsewhere) disagreement with the assumption that weight is lost eating this way because of unintended calorie restriction (although I agree that overall I eat fewer calories eating this way than eating freely, but I eat more calories than I would eating “lowfat/lowcal”) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/94 "2011-10-03T04:44:28Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > **DSeid** is correct that many people these days who might call themselves ‘paleo’ are doing and eating very differently than what that Mayo article brands ‘paleo’… Again, that list is just what paleolithic nutrition actually _was_, not Mayo’s brand. If someone met most of their calorie needs with hunted meats, fish, and gathered vegetables and fruits, then that would result. It is the result of [current hunter gatherer diets](http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/DietaryGuidelines/2010/Meeting2/CommentAttachments/Hahn-178DOC.pdf). Someone who eats as many who label themselves as Paleo (or “archevore”) do and promote, will not come close. Also again, being actually similar to the nutritional composition of a real Paleolithic diet does not prove nutritional superiority. In this case however most of those items have good separate lines of research to support them. However you get there. **Stoid** , please stop conflating your Atkin’s style, high fat, especially high saturated fat, diet with the word “Paleo.” There is very little overlap. And **misterW** ’s point still stands - it is hard for him to not lose weight eating that way, and he would like to gain. In addition to weight training aimed for muscle mass building, he needs all of: adequate protein timed especially for the post work-out anabolic window; healthy fats; and enough calories. ---
**Author:** ![Elysium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@Elysium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysium)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/95 "2011-10-03T12:23:59Z")
Wow, nice to see this thread get revived. Well my husband and I did the 30 days, and he ended up LOVING how he felt and I was kind of ambivalent. So we are both doing modified versions of our own personal preferences now. I can’t really live without some dairy, so I eat yogurt and lactose-free milk (intolerant), but he found that when he goes without the grains and diary he feels great and when he gets hungry he no longer feels hypoglycemic, so he is sticking with it as best he can. But the real benefit for us was to break out of the routines and add a lot of new foods and recipes into our daily lives. We cook a lot more often, get fresh veggies from farmers markets each week. Zucchini and cauliflower and sweet potatoes have replaced white potatoes and pasta as go-to side dishes, and I discovered some amazing new recipes that we absolutely love. So in all it was good for us to try, even if I personally don’t plan on being that restrictive every day. I don’t miss the white potatoes though, not nearly as much as I thought I would. And I realized I didn’t even bother thinking about alcohol for the full thirty days, so I know living without liquor isn’t a problem for me in the least. Giving up diet soda was difficult, so I still have that occasionally as a treat. But in all I’m happy we gave it a shot. At the very least for discovering this amazing [roasted chili cauliflower](http://www.food.com/recipe/roasted-cauliflower-102194)recipe and this [Moroccan pork chops](http://www.theclothesmakethegirl.com/2008/07/24/healthy-tasty-moroccan-pork-chops/) recipe. Try them guys, they are both amazing dishes. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/96 "2011-10-03T13:38:52Z")
This seems like a thread that should have been in Cafe Society to begin with. Since it’s been resurrected, I’m going to put it there for its permanent home. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/97 "2011-10-03T15:06:06Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, what with cooking by myself again I’m afraid of getting really lazy and eating a bunch of junk, I want to really be aware of what I’m putting in my mouth. I don’t agree with a lot of the paleo stuff (seriously, legumes?) but it’s a good structure to work with and really push myself to cook and eat leftovers and such. Your post really got me thinking. With all of these “diets” around, how much of the healthy lifestyle they promote is simply cooking at home and avoiding processed foods? Could it be that all of them boil down to things like cooking a turkey breast or beef roast or ham and slicing it onto homemade bread for a sandwich instead of buying sodium/nitrate/food-glue lunch meat and putting it on preservative-laden Wonder bread? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/98 "2011-10-03T15:48:58Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Your post really got me thinking. With all of these “diets” around, how much of the healthy lifestyle they promote is simply cooking at home and avoiding processed foods? Could it be that all of them boil down to things like cooking a turkey breast or beef roast or ham and slicing it onto homemade bread for a sandwich instead of buying sodium/nitrate/food-glue lunch meat and putting it on preservative-laden Wonder bread? The majority of diets revolve around eating healthier foods and eating less of them. The devil, as they say, is in the details. People are complex, both physically and psychologically. The diet that works for me may not work for someone else because my needs and motivations are different from other people, and other people’s needs and motivations are different from mine. For example, Stoid is doing well on an Atkins-type plan, and that’s fine for her. Atkins, or Paleo, or the older Weight Watchers programs don’t do it for me because I don’t do well on restrictive diets. If I _can’t_ have a particular food, it tends to become what I most want, even if I wouldn’t eat a lot of it on my own. On the other hand, if I can eat what I want, it becomes a choice, and if it’s a choice, I have to think it through before I eat it. For example, cake isn’t off-limits, but I have to think about why I’m eating it. Is it because I really want the cake, or is it because everyone else is having cake and I feel like I should have some, too? If it’s the former, and I’ve got room for it in my food plan, I’ll eat a small piece. If it’s the latter, I’m probably better off not eating it and finding a better choice, such as frozen yogurt or fruit. But that’s just me and how I roll. (FTR, I’m doing the new Weight Watchers plan, and I’m down 70 or so lbs.) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/99 "2011-10-03T16:39:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Stoid** , please stop conflating your Atkin’s style, high fat, especially high saturated fat, diet with the word “Paleo.” There is very little overlap. We disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836/100 "2011-10-03T16:46:48Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > For example, Stoid is doing well on an Atkins-type plan, and that’s fine for her. Atkins, or Paleo, or the older Weight Watchers programs don’t do it for me because I don’t do well on restrictive diets. If I _can’t_ have a particular food, it tends to become what I most want, even if I wouldn’t eat a lot of it on my own. Just for the record, nothing is permanently off limits for me. I actually had a “cake day” recently because I made some nutmeg cake for my dad and I indulged quite a bit myself for a day. But that was my first such indulgence since May. I enjoyed it, but I made sure it was over within a day. And while I relate to what you’re saying here, what I and many others have found is that carbohydrate restriction specifically (in whatever format, ranging from a glycemic index diet to near-total Atkins Week One) actually changes the way we think about, respond to, and desire food, pretty much eliminating the issue from the inside out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-done-the-whole9-30-day-challenge-paleo-diet/580836.md?page=6)