# Anyone Doubting the Divide in America Should Get a Load of This **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127 "2023-11-14T14:54:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/61 "2023-11-15T16:16:22Z")
I love subjects like that. Peter Santenello does some of my favorite: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3O6bKdPLbw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3O6bKdPLbw) He just takes people as they come, without judgement. That’s something many people don’t know how to do, just listen and try to understand others. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/62 "2023-11-15T16:35:29Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > The idea that there is nothing to live on in the country is bizarre. Where do you think all your food comes from? The store? > > The refugees your mom remembers were fleeing the Dust Bowl, which affected vast sections of the US. It was caused by truly stupid farming practices coupled with a major drought. Look it up. She was driving up with her dad to his fishing camp. In Wisconsin. It sounds like your family entered the Depression without any debts whatsoever, and escaped foreclosure and repossession. That wasn’t true for most people. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/63 "2023-11-15T16:52:30Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Well, my grandparents were dairy farmers in Wisconsin in the Depression. They had no money but because they, like all their neighbors, grew almost all their own food, they did not feel it nearly as much as city people. My FIL’s family moved from Chicago to live with a relative in - I forget - either rural WI or MI. And my mom’s family moved from Mass to Iowa to be closer to farming family. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/64 "2023-11-15T19:21:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Would they rather the tourists don’t visit? What do they want more? To be left alone or tourist money? (willing to bet the latter) Seriously, my example was in support of @solost’s point about that the issue is more small town vs outsiders outside of the _political_ elements of the divide as suggested by the OP. Having said that, no, the locals I interacted with didn’t want to be “left alone” exactly, they just wanted the tourists to come, spend money, but be less _disruptive_. Don’t get me wrong, there was also ABSOLUTELY a good bit of racial animus in many cases, because most Colorado Mountain Towns are/were lily-white, and _some_ are far too gone into the sort of rural, Christian mono-culture that makes me wince, but -much- of the dislike was based on valid complaints. The concerns I specifically cited: > [@ParallelLines](#): > > They happily take the money, and are in fact dependent upon it, but from the POV of the people who live in those towns, all the tourists are loud, town clogging, trash dropping drunks who are only tolerated because it’s 90% of the economy. Includes the most common specific complaints, along with the direct answer to your question “happily take the money”. And that applies to certain tourist towns that lean very blue overall, although the surrounding areas are often deep red - so again, not _just_ the political divide causing issues. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/65 "2023-11-15T19:23:17Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > The idea that there is nothing to live on in the country is bizarre. Where do you think all your food comes from? The store? During the Great Depression in Saskatchewan, farms were badly hit by the drought and farm production dropped. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/66 "2023-11-15T19:31:50Z")
> [@solost](#): > > And now you, bump, are saying “I’d call it conformity”. > > I don’t think we’re in disagreement about that, though. Whether you call it homogenity, or tribalism, or conformity, I think we’re all saying pretty much the same thing there. I think tribalism is something different- it’s an “us vs. them” sort of mentality, and a lot of this sort of feeling in small towns seems to be as much directed inward as outward in my limited experience. That’s why I said “conformity”, in that everyone inside is supposed to conform outwardly, and to the outside world, they present a uniform front. And the main driver of everything is to minimize disharmony/disruption. If everyone looks and acts within “normal parameters”, everything is ok. But new ideas, new people, and people not following the script are all disruptive and with that comes change, which is scary in its own right, but also brings the spectre of what they know and love being changed. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/67 "2023-11-15T19:35:21Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Seriously, my example was in support of @solost’s point about that the issue is more small town vs outsiders outside of the _political_ elements of the divide as suggested by the OP. Having said that, no, the locals I interacted with didn’t want to be “left alone” exactly, they just wanted the tourists to come, spend money, but be less _disruptive_. I understand. To me that sounds like opening a Day Care for children and then complaining about the children being children. Sure, they’d rather make their money by the kids coming and napping the whole time till pick-up but that’s not how it works. Personally, I have no patience for such complaints. I’ve worked as a waiter a few times and I certainly had some bad customers who I would complain about but I never complained about the customers as a whole. Some were absolutely great and made my day. Most were in the middle…neither particularly good nor bad. But it was how I made my living at the time and if I didn’t like restaurant patrons I chose the wrong job and that’s on me. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/68 "2023-11-15T19:37:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Am I the only one who noticed that the bartender didn’t object to any specific values? Apparently, to him, anyone having any values, at all, was unacceptable. Yes, I noticed as well. I would have told him “My values are honesty, compassion, hard work, courage and respect. I’m sad to hear that your town does not think any of those values are worth having. Goodbye.” ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/69 "2023-11-15T19:55:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Some were absolutely great and made my day. Most were in the middle…neither particularly good nor bad. But it was how I made my living at the time and if I didn’t like restaurant patrons I chose the wrong job and that’s on me. I mostly agree, but think the difference comes from the last line of your post that I’ve quoted above. If you live in some of these small towns, places you and your family have lived possibly for several generations, you didn’t -choose- the job as it were, you’ve been there from when it was an actual mining concern, or something similar. But from that POV, the tourist invasion has only been going on for, say, 40 years or so, so especially for older residents, it is a noticeable and unwelcome change. Still, you’re mostly correct, there is always going to be a range of individuals, and treating them all with contempt is unjustified, but it’s the worst examples that always stand out, in this as any other enterprise. And people who are on vacation, especially during a ski holiday where other than getting smashed, there isn’t much to do in these little towns (well, some have legalized gambling which is a whole 'nother can of worms) - a lot of bad behavior is just “having a good time”. Granted, most of my direct interaction with actual locals was 20ish years ago, and maybe things are less rowdy now that everyone can bring an entertainment library in their pocket, but the people I know who go to Cripple Creek every few months to blow a paycheck are probably just as bad (win or especially lose). Sure, the people working at those casinos are in the same boat you were, they chose to work there, but everyone else in town is stuck with some of the bad behavior, even if they teach school all day or some other unrelated job. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/70 "2023-11-15T20:51:09Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > During the Great Depression in Saskatchewan, farms were badly hit by the drought and farm production dropped. Yep, things were tough. Many kids went to the USA to find work, my Mother found work at Boeing, where she met my Dad. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/71 "2023-11-15T21:26:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, look at Bolinas CA. I’ve spent several weekends in Bolinas (back in the 90s) with an ex, and we had a splendid time each weekend. I didn’t feel any hostility at all. The whole Bolinas “thing” is not terribly serious. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/72 "2023-11-16T00:12:20Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > The whole Bolinas “thing” is not terribly serious. The signs keep get taken down. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/73 "2023-11-16T01:00:36Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I’ve spent several weekends in Bolinas (back in the 90s) with an ex, and we had a splendid time each weekend. I didn’t feel any hostility at all. The whole Bolinas “thing” is not terribly serious. We stayed a week in Bolinas a few years ago, it was pleasant and quiet. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/74 "2023-11-16T01:09:58Z")
We never saw a sign, but still found our way. It’s really not a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/75 "2023-11-16T03:09:18Z")
For those of us not familiar with Bolinas, could you explain the back-story about the sign? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/76 "2023-11-16T03:17:54Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But you gotta appreciate the cluelessness of an idiot claiming to respect freedom - so long as one’s personal freedoms reflected the speaker’s own personal preferences! Come and leave your $, but then leave and don’t infect us w/ your values! 😃 When I lived in the SF Bay Area, in the 80s, I often saw this bumper sticker: “Welcome to California. Now go home.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/77 "2023-11-16T03:35:09Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > For those of us not familiar with Bolinas, could you explain the back-story about the sign? Thanks! wiki- _The community is known for its reclusive residents. It is only accessible via unmarked roads; any road sign along [State Route 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_1) that points the way into town has been torn down by local residents,[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolinas,_California#cite_note-8) to the point where county officials offered a ballot measure to which the voters responded by stating a preference for no more signs.[[9]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolinas,_California#cite_note-9)_ > [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > When I lived in the SF Bay Area, in the 80s, I often saw this bumper sticker: “Welcome to California. Now go home.” That was because Oregon at that time was doing things like egging and slashing tires of Californios. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/78 "2023-11-16T16:14:19Z")
I don’t believe that the example in the OP is necessarily reflective of a partisan divide, but more of a state/regionalism divide. They don’t want people bringing their big city ways, trying to change their local culture, regardless of the outsider’s political affiliation. And that isn’t new. Parts of the northern midwest have been that way since Teddy Roosevelt explored there. So it doesn’t really support the “Divide in America” that the OP is trying to promote exists. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/79 "2023-11-16T16:23:41Z")
It’s not entirely divorced and it’s more along racial lines than many would like to think. It’s not an accident of history that Black Americans historically gravitated more to the cities following the Civil War. Likewise the slow, and in some cases almost non-existent, diffusion of later immigrant groups like the Irish and Italians (both traditionally Catholic) and now more and more from Asia (lots of non-Christians) from the major urban centers to rural areas. There’s a reason we still talk about WASPs to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127/80 "2023-11-16T16:35:39Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > Best to just avoid Edmonton completely. We decided one year to go to the Pendleton Roundup in eastern Oregon. For those who aren’t familiar, it’s a big-deal rodeo event. Took the RV out there and parked in a lot designed for the purpose. Went to the rodeo and enjoyed it. Upon leaving, we got a lot of hostile looks from young intoxicated guys in plastic cowboy hats, so we hurried along to where our RV was parked. On the way out of the lot, I stopped to ask the guy at the entrance for a suggestion as to the quickest way back to the interstate. Some asshole sitting in the booth keeping him company piped up “I got a fuckin’ suggestion for you.” Not one to take someone’s shit, I looked him in the eye and said “What might that be?” The other guy jumped in right away and averted anything physical. Never went back there and always recommended to others that they not bother going unless they were interested in rude drunks and aggressive assholes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-doubting-the-divide-in-america-should-get-a-load-of-this/993127.md?page=5)