Great thread, absolutely great. As a British person it’s a fascinating read and I have enjoyed all of it. If it isn’t the Dope at it’s best, it’ll do until that comes along.
Me? Not a royalist. Deeply offended by “Born to reign over us “. Liz? Did a pointless and expensive job very well for a very long time. Mostly…. I happen to be out of the country until the hullabaloo is pretty much over. I will miss the ghoulish faux distress of hundreds of politicians, celebrities and whatever. Adieu Liz. You deserved better than that.
I hate the British class system. All class systems, really, but the Brits have the only one that I’m more than remotely familiar with. I think it’s great that both the class system and the Empire got shredded after WWII.
I don’t feel any particular grief about Elizabeth’s death. I’m just saying that I understand why she in particular is raising emotions here. Two entirely different things.
I think people are hard-wired to think of people they see often as people they do know, since we spent so many years evolving in environments where the only people we saw regulrly were people who were actually physically present and available to interact with us. Modern media tricks us into thinking that celebrities are within our monkeysphere.
I think this probably it. As an American I don’t feel that sad about the Queen passing, but she became Queen before I was born. She had always been there.
As a contrast, I’ve lived through twelve presidential administrations. “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”
And I mean, it’s gonna change the appearance of their money. And of their stamps. And of (one or two) words in their national anthem. There’s a lot of cultural substratum that isn’t going to change fundamentally, but is going to look different.
Even on this side of the pond, it will suddenly no longer make sense to affectionately tease family members or party hosts that you think are working too hard to prepare for your visit by asking “What, is the Queen of England coming to tea or something?” Nobody’d be going to that much trouble to impress the current Queen Consort or the future Queen Kate.
I’m not confused, and I’m American. (Well, Southern Californian.) Queen Elizabeth was the Face of England through decades of good times and bad times. But in the end, she was just freakin’ cool.
I think it may also have something to do with the type of person. The people I know who showed some grief about Elizabeth tend to also do it with others, and also just express their emotions more in general.
I also think that this also means that those of us who don’t express these types of emotions as often misjudge just how emotional they are. For example, I’m pretty sure my sister’s roommate was just sad for like a couple hours despite her loving tribute.
(For her, she’s kinda become an anglophile, with England becoming symbolic of a better life and better social circles than her own.)
A typical American misconception, and not really true.
In the UK, and in other constitutional monarchies within the Commonwealth through the domestic governor general, the monarch has both the power of influence and actual discretionary political power.
In terms of influence, as Head of State and a respected figure seen as being free of political bias, the monarch is in a position to have considerable public influence, as well as offering comfort and inspiration in times of crisis. The monarch also privately confers with and advises government leaders. There is a recent picture of Queen Elizabeth with one of the famous red boxes, catching up on government business.
But the monarch also has discretionary reserve powers. Although these powers are only intended to be used in exceptional circumstances, their political clout can be very substantial indeed:
Typically these powers are: to grant pardon; to dismiss a prime minister; to refuse to dissolve parliament; and to refuse or delay royal assent to legislation (to withhold royal assent amounts to a veto of a bill, while to reserve royal assent, in effect, amounts to a decision to neither grant nor refuse assent, but to delay taking a decision for an undetermined period). There are usually strict constitutional conventions concerning when these powers may be used
I understand the emotion around it all perfectly well (grew up in a house where some 1977 Jubilee silverware was a prized display piece. We all got off school to watch the Charles-Di wedding. etc.). Just going to avoid as much of that as possible.
What an asshole you are. You don’t have to be a monarchist, just a decent human being, to show a little respect at a time like this. Especially towards someone whose life was immeasurably more consequential than yours will ever be.
I don’t know what you’d consider modern media, but celebrity cult has been around for a long time, albeit for a given value of celebrity:
The cult of personality (particularly in the west) can be traced back to the Romantics in the 18th century, whose livelihood as artists and poets depended on the currency of their reputation. The establishment of cultural hot-spots became an important factor in the process of generating fame: for example, London and Paris in the 18th and 19th centuries. Newspapers started including gossip columns
