# Anyone else fearing a red wave? (Or at most, a blue ripple?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 28, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633 "2018-10-28T14:54:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/81 "2018-10-29T19:25:53Z")
And Trump’s just the man to do it! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/82 "2018-10-29T19:26:43Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Every single one of those problems are specifically problems of not loving your neighbor. Love the fascist, love the neo-Nazi, love the white supremacist, love the foreigner, love the immigrant, and on and on. > > Why do you think those people became that way? They live in a hateful world. Show them love. Like when a wife “loves” an abusive husband? ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/83 "2018-10-29T19:31:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Like when a wife “loves” an abusive husband? No. I’m not talking about being victimized. I’m talking about treating others the way you would like to be treated, like a human. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/84 "2018-10-29T19:32:27Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > And Trump’s just the man to do it! Trump does love the poorly educated ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/85 "2018-10-29T19:32:55Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > And Trump’s just the man to do it! No, you are. I am too. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/86 "2018-10-29T19:35:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I know at least one person who attempted to take their own life as a direct result of the current Republican administrations concerted attempt to erase the concept of trans rights. I know a dozen more people - including my girlfriend - who are terrified over what your president is going to do next. The possibility that your party’s naked bigotry is going to be rewarded in the polls is very possible. But, yeah, I guess all my trans friends’ worries that your party’s naked bigotry against them might actually be rewarded in the polls makes them anti-democracy. > > And I’ll stop there, because the next part of what I want to write to you isn’t suitable for this forum. Yes, it does make them anti-democracy. They apparently want a result that the majority apparently does not favor. But it’s okay, because . . . what? Their side is the right one, and should prevail regardless of what the stupid voters think? Is that your argument? That’s fine. But don’t try to dress the argument up as pro-representative-democracy. There seems to be a tendency to conflate “democracy,” with “good.” This leads to the assumption that results produced by democracy are good, wise results. But there’s no guarantee of that. Unfortunately this flummoxes you: you can’t come out and say you oppose representative democracy; you can’t endorse the results when it delivers results you don’t like. You’re stuck. So you try to solve that with an appeal to emotion: my friends are committing suicide, so great is the evil that threatens our fair shores! How does that fact mandate removing from the voters’ hands the right to select leaders they favor? Please be specific. And please share what alternate system to select leaders you feel we should adopt. Again, please be specific. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/87 "2018-10-29T19:37:15Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > No, you are. I am too. And the white supremecist. Don’t forget him. He is to show love to the one he hates. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/88 "2018-10-29T19:39:14Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > No. I’m not talking about being victimized. I’m talking about treating others the way you would like to be treated, like a human. And once again I ask how you would use “love” to solve the problems listed in that post. All you have proposed is to let the problems continue without opposition, which makes me ask which teams you are rooting for in each situation. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/89 "2018-10-29T19:40:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > And the white supremecist. Don’t forget him. He is to show love to the one he hates. Yes he is. And how do you get him to do that? People love when they are loved, and hate when they are hated. [NPR](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes) [NBC News](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-kkk-member-denounces-hate-groups-one-year-after-rallying-n899326) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/90 "2018-10-29T19:43:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, it does make them anti-democracy. They apparently want a result that the majority apparently does not favor. He was talking about LGBTQ civil rights. Are you arguing that it’s “democratic” if the majority (or the majority of elected representatives) successfully strips civil rights from a minority? And “anti-democracy” if the minority advocates that this shouldn’t be done? ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/91 "2018-10-29T19:44:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And once again I ask how you would use “love” to solve the problems listed in that post. All you have proposed is to let the problems continue without opposition, which makes me ask which teams you are rooting for in each situation. You don’t know how to love someone? By treating them how you would like to be treated. Treat everyone you meet like a brother or sister. Treat everyone like you would treat a friend. Have no enemies. Give to those who are in need. Pretty basic stuff, really. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/92 "2018-10-29T19:45:06Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > No. I’m not talking about being victimized. I’m talking about treating others the way you would like to be treated, like a human. When Team A is playing touch football, while Team B is playing Australian Rules Football, all the love in the world isn’t going to keep Team A from being slaughtered. “If only everyone loved each other everything would be just fine” isn’t an answer to any question-It’s a Vacation Bible School bumper sticker. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/93 "2018-10-29T19:45:11Z")
Why, it’s turtles all the way down. (Just as long as the nazi isn’t responsible for his own thoughts.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/94 "2018-10-29T19:46:53Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > You don’t know how to love someone? > > By treating them how you would like to be treated. Treat everyone you meet like a brother or sister. Treat everyone like you would treat a friend. Have no enemies. Give to those who are in need. Pretty basic stuff, really. I didn’t think you could(or would) actually apply your “solution” to any of the problems listed, but at least I gave you a chance. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/95 "2018-10-29T19:49:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When Team A is playing touch football, while Team B is playing Australian Rules Football, all the love in the world isn’t going to keep Team A from being slaughtered. “If only everyone loved each other everything would be just fine” isn’t an answer to any question-It’s a Vacation Bible School bumper sticker. Who’s slaughtering who here? I’m not saying “everything would be just fine”. I’m saying it’s ridiculous that everyone is cowering in fear thinking that some boogeyman is out to get them. If you think that you are being persecuted, then love your persecutor and win them over. I, however, have never met a neo-Nazi, so I find all of the hopeless quivering a bit ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/96 "2018-10-29T19:49:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I didn’t think you could(or would) actually apply your “solution” to any of the problems listed, but at least I gave you a chance. I think that love is like the Doppler effect…if you just love the Republicans then, instead of rushing away from you very quickly, they will instead rush towards you, shifting from a red wave to a blue wave! Love is all you need… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/97 "2018-10-29T19:56:34Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I, however, have never met a neo-Nazi, so I find all of the hopeless quivering a bit ridiculous. I have met them, and laughing at them is as effective in dealing with them as laughing _with_ them. They believe themselves to be of superior stock, and they don’t give a flying fuck about your love if you are not of their kind. They love your type of solution because it means you won’t get in their way. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/98 "2018-10-29T20:12:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have met them, and laughing at them is as effective in dealing with them as laughing _with_ them. They believe themselves to be of superior stock, and they don’t give a flying fuck about your love if you are not of their kind. I would call that bluff. They have to be called out of their group-think mentality, and the only way to do that is to display true humanity through love. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > They love your type of solution because it means you won’t get in their way. Bullshit. Love is infinitely more powerful than hate. Talk about being scared, love and empathy scares them to death. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/99 "2018-10-29T20:15:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, it does make them anti-democracy. They apparently want a result that the majority apparently does not favor. That doesn’t make someone anti-democracy. I did not “favor” the result of the last presidential election. (As memory serves, neither did you.) That does not make me anti-democracy. It makes me someone who favored the losing side in a democratic contest. Trump and the Republican party will, without a doubt, continue to use hatred of gay and trans people as a political tool to drive more bigots to the polls. Expressing fear that this tactic might work, to the immediate harm of people we care about, is also not anti-democracy. At no point in this thread - or any other - have I expressed the desire to disenfranchise anyone. At no point in the post you responded to did I say that any of my friends - not even the one who tried to kill herself, and thank you for your sympathetic comments in that regard - have argued for preventing anyone from voting. In general, it is the position of the Democratic party - and one that I support entirely - that the right to vote should be as unencumbered as possible. You, on the other hand, have argued consistently, for years, that people who are, in your view, too stupid or lazy to secure a voter ID should be barred from voting. You are currently arguing, in another thread, that people who have committed felonies should not be allowed to vote, because, in your words, “A felon shows not just indifference to the welfare of the nation but his outright hostility to it.” So maybe drop the “brave defender of the principles of democracy,” shtick. Or, at least, make sure you’re facing a mirror next time you break it out. Because the only person in this thread it applies to is yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633/100 "2018-10-29T20:26:21Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I would call that bluff. They have to be called out of their group-think mentality, and the only way to do that is to display true humanity through love. > > Bullshit. Love is infinitely more powerful than hate. Talk about being scared, love and empathy scares them to death. This ranks right up there with “Bullies are just putting up a front, and if you confront them they will back down” as advice guaranteed to get your ass stomped. You have no idea whatsoever as to what you are talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-fearing-a-red-wave-or-at-most-a-blue-ripple/823633.md?page=6)