# Anyone else kind of disillusioned with America after Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2021, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413 "2021-03-08T00:54:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/41 "2021-03-08T17:26:19Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Disillusioned is the wrong word. Disappointed, pessimistic, afraid for the future. All of these, including disillusioned… to the extent that I still had any illusions… > [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m more disillusioned than I was before and now seriously believe there is no recovery from this situation. If in the face of a deadly pandemic we cannot bridge what divides us it will not happen in better times. This, too. The divisions in the face of this life-threatening crisis are truly disheartening. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/42 "2021-03-08T17:51:42Z")
For me, being a classic Libra 😇, I can’t help but see both (or more) sides. There was always a vein of disillusionment (I can remember back to LBJ and Viet Nam), and the recent past has certainly heightened that. But there is also a vein of heightened optimism: seeing movement in the direction of more visibility and justice for people of color, LBGQT, women in general, etc. Yes, the birth pains on one side are equaled by the death throes on the other. I truly believe that the long arc of history bends toward justice. But it doesn’t happen without hard work. I remain sanguine that I will live to see some more positive solutions. But I am also realistic enough to expect that I will go to my grave seeing some conflicts unresolved. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/43 "2021-03-08T18:05:52Z")
Trump has exposed so many weaknesses in our democracy, and has lowered our standing in the world. He has also exposed hate and bigotry that was hidden. One one hand those weaknesses preexisted, on the other hand Trump let everyone in the world know about what was more of a national secret. So our reputation is shot. I was in europe during some time when Trump was in, and talked to many locals, some have said that many US visitors were apologizing for the embarrassment Trump is. That too I’m sure will linger. The closeness of how many people actually voted for Trump for a second term (though I don’t believe all those are real legal votes), also shows how deep the problem is, and the farce Trump lead the nation on trying to cling onto power made a mockery of our government and people. On many levels we look like a banana republic ready for violent overthrow after Trump. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/44 "2021-03-08T18:38:58Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > merica had a test and came through ok. Not great, but could have been a whole lot worse. Barely squeaked a passing C minus, some would say. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/45 "2021-03-08T20:37:21Z")
I questioned the Mod and he said my reply was on point. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/46 "2021-03-08T20:39:06Z")
I am trying to figure out which leftist group wants a dictatorship, and failing. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/47 "2021-03-08T20:59:58Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I’ve been disillusioned before – Reagan, Shrub come to mind – but the ex guy’s regime filled me with such a visceral disgust and contempt for such a large section of the American electorate that I doubt I will ever recover from it. For me the difference between Reagan and Bush Jr. vs Trump aren’t just a difference of degrees. The former two are like my favorite team losing a fair contest to the rival team. The latter is like my favorite team playing with refs that are corrupt. Even with the victory last year, I don’t feel the same sense of relief that I did when Obama won. ---
**Author:** ![SterlingArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@SterlingArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SterlingArcher)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/48 "2021-03-08T21:10:19Z")
Yes, totally agree. And I now feel hopeless that other people will ever change. The country seems to be half-filled with selfish people who only want to play the victim. And we will be forever teetering between being ruled by the deplorables and trying to make progress, often fruitlessly. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/49 "2021-03-09T02:53:34Z")
I am not disullusioned with America, nor was I disullisioned with America during his tenure in the Oval Office. For one thing, the majority of voters voted for the other candidate. For another, our courts, even with his meddling, showed that our system of separation of powers works. And, of course, the latest election showed that the people are the ones still making the choice. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/50 "2021-03-09T03:04:03Z")
Is it ok if I am disillusioned with America for reasons that have nothing to do with Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/51 "2021-03-09T03:25:30Z")
The problems with the country certainly go far deeper than one cartoonishly inept would-be demogogue. Trump is far more a symptom of discontent and resentment than a cause of it. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/52 "2021-03-09T11:07:31Z")
I agree, but what is causing that resentment and discontent? There is always going to be some level of discontent related to race, religion, economics, societal changes and other factors. I think it’s foolish to pretend otherwise. But to me, Trump symbolizes how much we have become a country of idiots who worship wealth, power, celebrity, and assholery and which mostly runs on “bullshit”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/53 "2021-03-09T14:04:37Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > The extreme right and extreme left agree on one thing. No democratic elections just a presumption the people blindly agree with everything the “leader” tells them because “he knows best”. The “extreme left” is a tiny fringe that loathes the Democratic Party as being too right-wing and corporatist. The “extreme right” is _the current Republican Party_. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/54 "2021-03-09T14:53:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I am not disullusioned with America, nor was I disullisioned with America during his tenure in the Oval Office. For one thing, the majority of voters voted for the other candidate. True, both times, but that 46.9% of the populace _still_ thought Trump was the better alternative after four years of a bullshit administration is disappointing. A 60/40 pasting – about as much as can be realistically expected – would have prevented the “election wuz stolen” meme. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/55 "2021-03-09T15:28:52Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > But to me, Trump symbolizes how much we have become a country of idiots who worship wealth, power, celebrity, and assholery and which mostly runs on “bullshit”. You win the thread. That is so tightly written it glows. Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/56 "2021-03-09T15:35:46Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > True, both times, but that 46.9% of the populace _still_ thought Trump was the better alternative after four years of a bullshit administration is disappointing. I always think it’s important to remember that Trump’s voters represented about 31% _of all eligible voters._ ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/57 "2021-03-09T15:53:19Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I always think it’s important to remember that Trump’s voters represented about 31% _of all eligible voters._ Eligible but not motivated enough to get off of their ass and vote doesn’t count. Only 66% of the eligible voters cast a vote ([Cite](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/01/28/turnout-soared-in-2020-as-nearly-two-thirds-of-eligible-u-s-voters-cast-ballots-for-president/)) higher than in generations but I have to wonder: What will it take to get them involved? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/58 "2021-03-09T16:31:38Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Eligible but not motivated enough to get off of their ass and vote doesn’t count. In my experience, increasing turnout often only _marginally_ varies total results. This election is an example: 21 million more voters went to the polls than 4 years earlier, turnout was up from 55% to 66%… and the global percent of popular vote for that candidate was actually slightly _higher_. Those who bother to show up tend to be roughly representative of those who don’t. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/59 "2021-03-09T16:53:55Z")
Which in turn implies that they had no serious objections to what was going on for the previous four years, like it didn’t matter at all. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/60 "2021-03-09T17:43:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > But to me, Trump symbolizes how much we have become a country of idiots who worship wealth, power, celebrity, and assholery and which mostly runs on “bullshit”. That largely sums it up. Even if you are relatively well off, there is the general social pressure that you should be doing much better; a bigger house, nicer cars, more elaborate vacations to far flung places, et cetera, all funded by credit that most people cannot afford to pay off and that many (including high school seniors embarking on years of accruing college debt that they will spend decades paying off). And of course, many people are not even well off, largely due to factors beyond their control including starting from lower socioeconomic status and lack of “connections”, a dearth of training in personal finance, and systemic racism, gender bias, and repression. If you aren’t making a great salary and have all the nice accouterments, it is regarded as a personal failing, even if you have chosen a career for its social virtues and feeling of contribution (e.g. teaching, fireman/EMS, social work, et cetera) and to compensate for that many people engage in get rich quick schemes like real estate speculation or playing the lottery which are statistically unlikely to provide much if any positive result. Trump is basically a modern day Napoleon Hill except instead of “Think and Grow Rich” it is more “Blame and Dream of Obscene Wealth If We Can Only MAGA”. He spins tales of how great “things used to be” (never mind that they weren’t that great even for the privileged minority that started from or was able to build great wealth, and that by nearly every measure we’re far better off today provided you live above the poverty line) and blames all of the people agitating for even slightly less unequal wealth distribution as “socialists” despite the fact that everything that has allowed this country to grow and develop is broadly “socialist” in nature from comprehensive basic education and rural electrification to our transportation and communications infrastructure. Trump is hardly the first person to do this–Reagan did it earlier and arguably better–but he has come along at a moment in history when awareness of inequalities combined with the increasing fragility of our economic system is really visible through the cracks of the facade of success and stability. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413.md?page=4)