# Anyone else kind of disillusioned with America after Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2021, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413 "2021-03-08T00:54:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/61 "2021-03-09T18:01:01Z")
Yes, disillusioned in the sense that I am no longer under the whiggish illusion that progress is inevitable, or that American Democracy can weather any storm. As far as my assessment of Americans themselves, I think they’re neither more horrible or less horrible than ever. It’s been my default assumption that things would get really ugly when the ruling white patriarchy faced a realistic possibility of having to share or even cede political power. I’m also of the mind that I see whiteness for what it is now, not an ethnicity or nationality, but simply the belief that the law should protect white people and bind everyone else. It’s a hard attitude to dislodge if the white person doesn’t see it as a problem (and why would they). ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/62 "2021-03-09T18:31:10Z")
For me it’s more concern than disillusionment. I fear that the GOP could regain power and, IMHO, if they started basing policy decisions on sorcery and astrology, I would not be surprised. If this was occurring in some minor principality somewhere in eastern Europe it wouldn’t matter. But it’s the US and it matters a lot and could be extremely damaging to the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/63 "2021-03-09T18:43:35Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Which in turn implies that they had no serious objections to what was going on for the previous four years, like it didn’t matter at all. In my time going door to door drumming up votes for various candidates, I most often found that the people who told me that they were not voting gave as their reason their conviction that their vote didn’t matter, not that they didn’t object to the status quo. They often hated the way things were, but felt helpless to change anything. ---
**Author:** ![TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thegunismightierthanthepen/32/2981_2.png) [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheGunIsMightierThanThePen)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/64 "2021-03-09T19:06:27Z")
I actually hope that red states get so antagonized by the Biden administration and/or future Democratic administrations that they make clamors to secede. And when they do, we should just let 'em secede! Because if the tables were reserved, a Republican administration sure as shit won’t let the blue states secede – can’t lose that sweet, sweet federal tax revenue that blue states are subsidizing the red states with. And when the red states break away, the blue states can finally craft a more modern and flexible Constitution. Yes, I’m aware that there are many issues to work out in the aftermath, but if this opportunity ever arises all I can do is shout in vain at the Democratic leadership, “TAKE IT!!!”. They’ll seriously regret it when the chance has passed, and one day the Republican dictators are kneeling on their throats. ---
**Author:** ![velcro](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velcro/32/7102_2.png) [@velcro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velcro)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/65 "2021-03-09T19:12:58Z")
I read somewhere that Black people in the US were much less surprised when Trump was elected. They already knew how a significant portion of the population and institutions were racist and corrupt. On a related topic, there is some research to indicate that 30% of any given population actively prefers authoritarian rule, even if they don’t admit it or even recognize it. There’s an interesting and very accessible book on the subject. [https://theauthoritarians.org/options-for-getting-the-book/](https://theauthoritarians.org/options-for-getting-the-book/) and this article seems to summarize it, although I did not read it thoroughly > **[Altemeyer on Trump’s Supporters](https://verdict.justia.com/2017/07/07/altemeyer-trumps-supporters)** > > John W. Dean, former counsel to President Richard Nixon, relates the research and words of psychology professor Bob Altemeyer as the latter explains how difficult it would be to change the minds of su... ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/66 "2021-03-09T19:21:34Z")
> [@velcro](#): > > I read somewhere that Black people in the US were much less surprised when Trump was elected. [I think this sketch was from the first Satruday after the 2016 election.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHG0ezLiVGc) ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/67 "2021-03-09T20:21:25Z")
I read a lot of history and the more I learn the more disillusioned I get with America and frankly humanity. Trump just showed that as bad as things are, they will get worse before they get better. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/68 "2021-03-09T20:54:08Z")
I’m not asking for a cite here, but have always wondered about that, and basically – based on nothing – come to the same conclusion: that there’s no obvious reason, in general, to think that non-voters break in a way that’s substantively different from voters. But have you seen that looked into somewhere ? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/69 "2021-03-09T21:09:18Z")
I’d be a lot more sanguine, were it not for Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/70 "2021-03-09T22:48:39Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > But to me, Trump symbolizes how much we have become a country of idiots who worship wealth, power, celebrity, and assholery and which mostly runs on “bullshit”. > > That largely sums it up. Even if you are relatively well off, there is the general social pressure that you should be doing much better; a bigger house, nicer cars, more elaborate vacations to far flung places, et cetera, all funded by credit that most people cannot afford to pay off and that many (including high school seniors embarking on years of accruing college debt that they will spend decades paying off). And of course, many people are not even well off, largely due to factors beyond their control including starting from lower socioeconomic status and lack of “connections”, a dearth of training in personal finance, and systemic racism, gender bias, and repression. If you aren’t making a great salary and have all the nice accouterments, it is regarded as a personal failing, even if you have chosen a career for its social virtues and feeling of contribution (e.g. teaching, fireman/EMS, social work, et cetera) and to compensate for that many people engage in get rich quick schemes like real estate speculation or playing the lottery which are statistically unlikely to provide much if any positive result. I think it’s a bit more complicated than just keeping up with the Jones out of a sense of vanity. Sure, my wife and I make decent salaries and enjoy the benefits that come with it. But we aren’t the sort of people who run out and buy a new car every year (or ever really). IMHO, I think the source of pressure for people who are “relatively well off” is that you have to work in a field that is often largely “bullshit” (bordering on an actual racket) and then spend decades eating all sorts of crap to maintain that lifestyle as a corporate serf. You have to live in or near expensive cities like New York, San Francisco or Boston, which often negates the financial benefits. The jobs are often highly competitive and stressful. And usually not in a “best and brightest” sort of way. Usually it’s more in a “mob of backstabby fake morons” kind of way. Or, the alternative is you get stuck in some low-level dead end job which is 1000x worse. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/71 "2021-03-09T23:35:10Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I most often found that the people who told me that they were not voting gave as their reason their conviction that their vote didn’t matter, not that they didn’t object to the status quo. They often hated the way things were, but felt helpless to change anything. Though their disgust with the statu quo does not necessarily mean they want to change it in my preferred direction. They may be willing listeners for someone who comes promising they get to tear it all down and watch it burn. (Though in service to justice I should need to refine what I said earlier (just from my experience in past campaigns): Non-voters _because of being normally apathetic or low-effort_ tend to break along with the voters. Non-voters because of being _actively prevented from voting_ (suppression, disenfranchisement) are a different story.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/72 "2021-03-09T23:59:04Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > They may be willing listeners for someone who comes promising they get to tear it all down and watch it burn. A lot of Trumpists in my acquaintance fall exactly into this group. In that view, politics is just a corrupt, expensive, and pointless game with no real consequences for us proles = “real Americans”. Trump pranked the lot of them and good on him for doing so! That flavor of Trumpist (or the next populist) are all friggin’ morons. But they’re out there in their millions and each of their votes counts about 50% more than yours or mine. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/73 "2021-03-10T06:08:56Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > They often hated the way things were, but felt helpless to change anything. “Why is your dog howlin’?” “‘Cause he’s settin’ on a tack.” “Why don’t he move offa the tack?” “Too lazy – he’d rather just set and howl.” If I’m sounding unsympathetic, you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/74 "2021-03-10T08:28:45Z")
I started the Trump administration thinking that American might not survive another twenty years. I ended it thinking we might not deserve to. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/75 "2021-03-10T13:56:53Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > “Why is your dog howlin’?” > > “‘Cause he’s settin’ on a tack.” > > “Why don’t he move offa the tack?” > > “Too lazy – he’d rather just set and howl.” > > If I’m sounding unsympathetic, you’re right. Learned helplessness is a real thing, observed in people and also documented by controlled laboratory experiments on animals: > **[Learned helplessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness)** > > Learned helplessness is the behavior exhibited by a subject after enduring repeated aversive stimuli beyond their control. It was initially thought to be caused by the subject's acceptance of their powerlessness, by way of their discontinuing attempts to escape or avoid the aversive stimulus, even when such alternatives are unambiguously presented. Upon exhibiting such behavior, the subject was said to have acquired learned helplessness. > In humans, learned helplessness is related to the concept... ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/76 "2021-03-10T14:44:00Z")
Our poorly representative election systems are one reason why people don’t feel their vote matters. In fact, the whole constitution, unlike that used by more advanced nations, is designed to limit decisive governance. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/77 "2021-03-10T15:33:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Accept that democratic principles and freedoms aren’t bequeathed to us in a permanently stable, irrevocable form, become politically active\* and fight for what you believe in. Or at a minimum, _vote_ . There aren’t many on this board that didn’t do, at least the minimum there, and quite a number of us have done significantly more. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > \*as opposed to moaning on social media. What are you doing right now? It’s not an either or, we can be politically active, _and_ we can connect with eachother over social media. We can commiserate with eachother, encourage eachother, collaborate together. We can hone our arguments to be used in RL encounters, and we can even try to persuade some to our side in virtual space as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/78 "2021-03-10T15:48:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What are you doing right now? I _was_ eye-rolling, but I’ve gotten over it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/79 "2021-03-10T15:57:19Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > their vote didn’t matter, not that they didn’t object to the status quo. They often hated the way things were, but felt helpless to change anything. I’ve never knocked on a door for a national candidate. I’ve always represented local offices. City council, mayor, school board, the biggest office I ever worked for was for a State Representative. Those are the circumstances where your vote _does_ matter, these races are often won by hundreds of votes at most. I managed to convince a number of them to come out to support my candidate in a vote they didn’t even know was happening. Politics is local, that’s the message that I always give. Of course, as long as they are there, voting for the person that will make sure that their potholes are filled and their streets are plowed, they may as well make their voice heard on the national scene as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413/80 "2021-03-10T16:22:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’ve never knocked on a door for a national candidate. I’ve always represented local offices. City council, mayor, school board, the biggest office I ever worked for was for a State Representative. Me too. Well, when I was 15 I canvassed for McGovern. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-kind-of-disillusioned-with-america-after-trump/937413.md?page=5)