# Anyone else questioning the extent of "social isolation"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 17, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671 "2020-03-17T18:26:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/221 "2020-03-22T02:57:37Z")
I don’t think you can really use China as a reference for how to control the spread of corona, considering the fact that it was the government’s lies that allowed it to fester in Wuhan and eventually spread worldwide. When they say that there haven’t been any new cases, you know it’s probably a lie: the CCP is feeling the heat and their propaganda efforts are intended to wipe everyone’s memory clear of Wuhan and to fixate on how bad their home-cooked crisis is for everyone outside of China. I don’t trust a fucking thing that comes out of China. South Korea is the model. They are the standard that everyone else has to live up to, and unlike China, which barbarically left some people to die in the streets, tyranically imposed martial law, threatened to throw doctors and their families in jail merely for telling people that there was a serious health crisis…South Korea did everything with transparency. When South Korea says that their number of new infections is going down, believe that. As for the American response, much has already been said about the lack of testing and the efforts at social distancing - we’re catching up slowly but surely in that regard. But there is still an inexcusable amount of misinformation about the disease. All I keep seeing is “Wash your hands! And stay six feet apart.” No, you don’t get it, but read this and read this carefully because it might just save your life: all the evidence points to the **primary mode of transmission being through the air** , not by touching doorknobs and failing to wash hands. Don’t get me wrong, you can get it by touching infected surfaces. And you do need to wash your hands. But the thing you absolutely must remember about this virus is that it stays airborne, and that’s how it is typically transmitted. ANd it can stay airborne a lot longer than people realize. If you’re in a room, or even in a hallway, and someone coughs, those droplets can stay in the air for 10-30 minutes, and in some cases, they can remain airborne for hours. Don’t think you can just go on shopping, walking, jogging, living your normal life and then come home and wash it away. You will DIE if you believe that. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/222 "2020-03-22T03:18:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > You will DIE if you believe that. Come on now. This thing is bad, but the melodrama is not necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/223 "2020-03-22T03:39:43Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > I’m sure that within a few weeks all the skeptics will be convinced, though too late. > > The situation in the US is shaping up to be far worse than Italy. How so? I thought we moved faster than Italy by like a week. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/224 "2020-03-22T03:47:09Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > No, that is group 2. People that will survive if and only if they can get medical treatment. > > We cannot flatten the curve enough to make enough capacity. > > The question is and continues to be, at what point do we need say the cost is too high to save these lives? > > This really is not that complicated. The reason I separated it out was because there’s the set of people with coronavirus who WOULD survive, with adequate medical care. That’s Group 2. Then Group 4 was the set of people who have OTHER conditions who would survive with adequate medical care. The people who say… a month ago, would have been treated without any capacity issue questions. So the goal is to flatten the curve _as much as we can_, even if we can’t totally flatten it. Even if we drop it only a little bit and 5% more people could be treated than otherwise, on a national scale that translates into a non-trivial number of lives saved. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/225 "2020-03-22T04:46:25Z")
The success Asian countries have had in flattening the curve shows that social distancing does work, it just needs to be strictly followed. > [@running\_coach](#): > > So wear food service gloves to avoid touching door handles, railings, etc. We are doing that, but it is looking increasingly likely that the virus spreads through the air, and lingers in the air for anywhere from a half hour to three hours. So a narrow hallway to outside, with no ventilation, is going to collect a lot of people’s exhalations in an apartment building with hundreds of residents and only two exits (other than for the ground floor residents, who can just walk out their sliding glass doors, whereas for us on higher floors those go to a balcony). > [@asahi](#): > > I don’t think you can really use China as a reference for how to control the spread of corona, considering the fact that it was the government’s lies that allowed it to fester in Wuhan and eventually spread worldwide. When they say that there haven’t been any new cases, you know it’s probably a lie: the CCP is feeling the heat and their propaganda efforts are intended to wipe everyone’s memory clear of Wuhan and to fixate on how bad their home-cooked crisis is for everyone outside of China. I don’t trust a fucking thing that comes out of China. > > South Korea is the model. They are the standard that everyone else has to live up to, and unlike China, which barbarically left some people to die in the streets, tyranically imposed martial law, threatened to throw doctors and their families in jail merely for telling people that there was a serious health crisis…South Korea did everything with transparency. When South Korea says that their number of new infections is going down, believe that. > > As for the American response, much has already been said about the lack of testing and the efforts at social distancing - we’re catching up slowly but surely in that regard. But there is still an inexcusable amount of misinformation about the disease. All I keep seeing is “Wash your hands! And stay six feet apart.” > > No, you don’t get it, but read this and read this carefully because it might just save your life: all the evidence points to the **primary mode of transmission being through the air** , not by touching doorknobs and failing to wash hands. Don’t get me wrong, you can get it by touching infected surfaces. And you do need to wash your hands. But the thing you absolutely must remember about this virus is that it stays airborne, and that’s how it is typically transmitted. ANd it can stay airborne a lot longer than people realize. If you’re in a room, or even in a hallway, and someone coughs, those droplets can stay in the air for 10-30 minutes, and in some cases, they can remain airborne for hours. > > Don’t think you can just go on shopping, walking, jogging, living your normal life and then come home and wash it away. You will DIE if you believe that. THIS. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/226 "2020-03-22T06:30:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > FWIW, I build a very simple dynamical system model of the virus distribution based upon the publicly available data as of last Saturday, and even using the most conservative assumptions about transmission and dispersion, I got an R[SUB]0[/SUB] of at minimum 4, and possibly higher than 6. Now, I’m not a virologist or epidemiologist so I could have made some unlikely assumptions that a professional would dispute, but as I’ve been watching the R[SUB]0[/SUB] estimates creep up I get the feeling that people were trying to make optimistic projections rather than realistic ones. Did you have (or need) any particular assumptions about the ratio of actual cases to official cases in those models? Scott Alexander at slatestarcodex reviewed a number of different estimates in the 5x to 20x range of ratios and at some point it’s going to make a big difference to in the infection rate. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/227 "2020-03-22T06:58:36Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The reason I separated it out was because there’s the set of people with coronavirus who WOULD survive, with adequate medical care. That’s Group 2. > > Then Group 4 was the set of people who have OTHER conditions who would survive with adequate medical care. The people who say… a month ago, would have been treated without any capacity issue questions. > > So the goal is to flatten the curve _as much as we can_, even if we can’t totally flatten it. Even if we drop it only a little bit and 5% more people could be treated than otherwise, on a national scale that translates into a non-trivial number of lives saved. Yah… I knew why you were splitting it out and trying to create a group 4. I consider those part of group 2, but call it group 2a if you want. In the end, as a result of this wave we are staring at, there will be a WHOLE bunch of people who will need medical care to survive who aren’t going to get it. Whether that be because of COVID-19 or something else, they are going to die. 5% of a huge number is significant and hopefully we can get it that high. I truly hope we are able to save huge numbers that otherwise would died had we not done all these things to flatten the curve. I just hope in the long run, months or years from now, this saves more than it kills. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/228 "2020-03-22T10:28:47Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > No. The SARS-CoV-2 seems to have a long latency period—maybe as long as 7-10 days—prior to expression, and it appears that many people may be asymptomatic or marginally symptomatic, so even with social distancing, people may be living with asymptomatic carriers. And the lack of effective testing means that we actually have do not have a good basis to make a qualified statistical estimate of how widespread the contagion may be, although the number of asymptomatic people who have tested positive indicates that the current estimates of the R[SUB]0[/SUB] value are probably way too low. > > FWIW, I build a very simple dynamical system model of the virus distribution based upon the publicly available data as of last Saturday, and even using the most conservative assumptions about transmission and dispersion, I got an R[SUB]0[/SUB] of at minimum 4, and possibly higher than 6. Now, I’m not a virologist or epidemiologist so I could have made some unlikely assumptions that a professional would dispute, but as I’ve been watching the R[SUB]0[/SUB] estimates creep up I get the feeling that people were trying to make optimistic projections rather than realistic ones. > > \… To help other English majors like myself understand Stranger’s excellent post(s): > [@](#): > > **[What Is R[SUB]0[/SUB]?: Gauging Contagious Infections](https://www.healthline.com/health/r-nought-reproduction-number)** > > - Understanding the possibilities\* > > R[SUB]0[/SUB] is pronounced “R naught.” It’s a mathematical term that indicates how contagious an infectious disease is. It’s also referred to as the reproduction number. As an infection spreads to new people, it reproduces itself. > > R[SUB]0[/SUB] tells you the average number of people who will catch a disease from one contagious person. It specifically applies to a population of people who were previously free of infection and haven’t been vaccinated. If a disease has an R[SUB]0[/SUB] of 18, a person who has the disease will transmit it to an average of 18 other people, as long as no one has been vaccinated against it or is already immune to it in their community. > > - What do R[SUB]0[/SUB] values mean?\* > > Three possibilities exist for the potential spread or decline of a disease, depending on its R[SUB]0[/SUB] value: > [ul] > [li]If R[SUB]0[/SUB] is less than 1, each existing infection causes less than one new infection. In this case, the disease will decline and eventually die out.[/li][li] If R[SUB]0[/SUB] equals 1, each existing infection causes one new infection. The disease will stay alive and stable, but there won’t be an outbreak or an epidemic.[/li][li] If R[SUB]0[/SUB] is more than 1, each existing infection causes more than one new infection. The disease will spread between people, and there may be an outbreak or epidemic.[/li][/ul] > … More at the link. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/229 "2020-03-22T12:28:43Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Come on now. This thing is bad, but the melodrama is not necessary. If you think it’s melodrama, then carry on. You’ll end up in an ICU pretty soon. Another thing people ought to be aware of is that the currently reported number of cases 25,000-ish…is way, way, low. We’re still catching up, and these numbers mostly reflect the past. The real number of infected is already in the **hundreds of thousands**. COVID-19 is much, much closer to you than you realize. Let’s put numbers into perspective. For the average person, the death rate is about 1 in 100. The problematic word here, though, is “average.” The average death rate for someone who is in their 20s and in good health is quite low - perhaps as low or even lower than for seasonal flu (the data are not completely in). But that “average” number gets worse as you age, and as you collect conditions over the course of your life. If you’re over the age of 70 or 75, there’s a good chance you have decreased immunity, decreased liver function, and increased high blood pressure. Consequently, the “average” fatality rate for such patients is more like 1 in 10. But another problem that doesn’t get talked about nearly enough is that this is a devastating and rough affliction even if you don’t die. You could live, but end up in the ICU and in a hospital bed for weeks - do you have that kind of money? I don’t. Most people I know would have their savings and retirement significantly depleted by this illness. Don’t expect to just stay home and fight it off with orange juice. You could have severe lung tissue scarring, and consequently, permanent lung injury. How’d you like to walk around leashed to an oxygen machine? There’s no melodrama here. There will be many, many people of all ages who will live, but they will require immediate emergency hospitalization -that’s quite different from seasonal flu, which the health system already takes into account and prepares for. COVID-19 was unexpected. It’s extra. It throws everything out of balance. That’s exactly why healthcare workers in major cities are sounding the alarm about running out of beds and equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/230 "2020-03-22T12:36:28Z")
nevermind ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/231 "2020-03-22T12:43:11Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > If you think it’s melodrama, then carry on. You’ll end up in an ICU pretty soon. Telling all of us that we’re gonna die if we contract COVID-19 is blatantly wrong. And telling me that I’m gonna end up in the ICU for believing as much is blatantly stupid. You can make your point without relying on wrongness and stupidity. It detracts from your otherwise cogent arguments. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/232 "2020-03-22T12:53:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > First of all, it should be understood that all of the guidelines about washing hands, keeping a 6 foot/2 meter distance, avoiding gatherings of more than an arbitrary number of people, et cetera, are just general guidance based upon prior experience with public health measures and will in no way guarantee to improve your odds of not being infected. In fact, there are no really good estimates of the behavior and transmissibility of the virus because of the significant delay in some patients between being exposed to SARS-CoV-2 (the coronavirus) and the onset of COVID-19 (the medical nomenclature for the disease that some people suffer). The media and general public continue to conflate the two but in fact there appear to be a substantial number of people who have tested positively for antibodies to the SARS-CoV-2 virus (indicating that they have had a significant viral load) but have exhibited no signs or symptoms of COVID-19. Given how limited testing has been and continues to be, and that it has been restricted to people either exhibiting signs and symptoms or have been in the immediate proximity of COVID-19 sufferers, there is a strong possibility of asymptomatic transmission, and that the incidence in the population of anyone in or near a major population center could be far greater than suggested by public health numbers. It also seems apparent that the virus can be transmitted by aerosol vector as the original SARS-CoV virus responsible for the 2003 Hong Kong outbreak. > > Second, while you may not be concerned about the consequences of being exposed to SARS-CoV-2 or contracting the COVID-19 illness, and the people you gather with may be equally indifferent, the reality is that by engaging in unnecessary social contact you may transmit or receive the virus and then transmit it to other people by incidental contact. Even though it is likely that you will eventually come into contact with the virus, the fewer paths it has to spread, the lower overall rate of effective spread (as measured by the R-0 value you have been hearing the talking heads yammering on about in the past few days). Even reducing transmission rates by a factor of two will have a significant impact upon the overall rate of infection which gives more time for people who may have severe reactions to the virus to be distributed in time and thus not overloading our increasingly fragile critical health care systems and underequipped facilities and requiring critical patient triage as has been seen in China, Iran, and Italy. Even shifting the average rate of infection by a week or two across a significant amount of the population allows freeing up beds and respirators for patients in critical need and reducing the case fatality rate due to an avoidable lack of respiration support or other care measures. > > Third, you should be concerned about contracting the illness right now because while you may not be in a high risk demographic, it is simply not possible to be assured that some aspect of the viral interaction does not provoke a strong response in you. Respiratory infections can progress from benign to lift-threatening in a matter of hours depending on cofactors, including the presence of previously weakly pathogenic bacteria. There is also the reality that coronaviruses as a class are particularly prone to mutation, and there have in fact been reports of researchers in China reporting evidence of mutation. Since the CDC only started growing the virus in their labs in early February (and it is unclear to the extent they have been able to cultivate multiple samples) the variability that this novel coronavirus, which is previously uncharacterized and strongly suspected to be recently zoonotic (transferred from animal host to human, and therefore has not evolved to co-exist in a human host without reaction as thousands of existing viruses do in every person) is unknown, as is the effectiveness of antibodies developed against one strain in fighting off another. In other words it is possible that you could be infected and develop a resistance to one strain of SARS-CoV-2 only to be infected with a different strain for which you have little or no inherent resistance, as it is with the various families of enteroviruses, coronaviruses, adenoviruses, parainfluenza viruses, and other viruses that cause seasonal colds, or the families of influenza A and B viruses that cause ‘the flu’. > > And again, the goal of social distancing and isolation is to slow the spread of these viruses. This has a critical effect in addition to blunting the peak rates of COVID-19 illness; it also allows the virus to adapt to be more benign within the population, as well as developing better care measures and (maybe) an effective vaccine. As more virulent strains burn out, more benign strains may become predominate and offer at least some protection to build up immunity even if someone is exposed to a more virulent strain. By participating in the recommended public hygiene and social distancing measures you are helping to blunt the rate of infection giving people with a potentially higher likelihood of contracting a severe case of COVID-19 a better chance, even if in just the aggregate. Or, you can ignore these guidelines and contribute to a situation like that in Italy, where people are dying while waiting just to get into a hospital, or Iran, where satellite images show the excavation of mass grave sites. But realize that by doing this, you are putting people like **ThelmaLou** at greater risk. The impact may be lost in the aggregation, but the effects are very real and personal to people at high risk for contracting the disease. > > By the way, everyone should be absolutely outraged about the public health response to this pandemic and going right up to the top. It is certain that the unwillingness of the Chinese to share information about the extent of the outbreak and their inability to control it has had significant effects on allowing the disease to get a foothold outside of Wuhan (and I’m not convinced that their most recent response to reopen businesses and schools will not result in a mass flareup) but the United States, Japan, and Europe had plenty of warning to at least start a public health informational campaign. In retrospect, completely containing the virus was probably never possible given the long latency period and likelihood of asymptomatic and aerosol transmission, but starting an education campaign about the need for social distancing back in January, giving lead time for businesses and institutions to make plans for remote work and interaction, and otherwise educating and indoctrinating the public in the need for public hygiene measures could have gone a long way toward limiting the rate of spread, and could have been done in a way to minimize public panic. Instead–and in the interests of not making this political I won’t name any names, but I think everyone is aware of the biggest and absolute best perpetrators–certain leading figures have spoken to the public in manner and word dismissive of the potential hazard, spreading factually untrue information about how the virus may be spread, and seemingly intentionally undermining the efforts of public health officials to inform the public. This is absolutely criminal negligence of the most absurd kind. > > This is not some unexpected threat that came out of nowhere to blindside officials; epidemiologists have been warning about this very type of pandemic for decades as the degree and rate of zoonosis has been better understood. A major motion picture starring all those pretty people you see at the Oscars every year [was made by Steven Soderbergh back in 2011](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/) which presented this threat in a very realistic fashion, and popular science books from Richard Preston’s _The Hot Zone_ to David Quammen’s _Spillover_ have warned about the potential for unconfined zoonotic viruses to emerge into pandemic status in a world in which an infected patient can travel from Singapore to Amsterdam (or Sri Lanka to San Francisco) in a matter of hours with no controls, no truly global medical information network, and health systems that are fragile to these kinds of major health epidemics. There should have been existing plans in place for dealing with a public epidemic which are shared with educations institutions, businesses, and other impacted parties instead of the mad panic of post-equine-barn-door-closing ‘directives’ which sequentially contradict each other or will have little-to-no effect, and in the case of travel bans and trade restrictions may have a negative effect on the ability of the epidemiological community to effectively communicate. By the point that your pandemic has reached New Zealand there is exactly no point in a blanket travel ban or shutting borders down except to be seen doing something, anything, just make it look like we’re not as clueless as the bureaucrats in that Scottish zombie movie with Discount Kate Beckinsale. > > As for the o.p., you are presumably an adult and will do as you please, but consider that your actions do have consequences even if they are not personally apparent to you. The guidelines for social distancing aren’t crafted just to ensure that you do not get to have a good time; they are the best if belated measures that you can personally take to help retard the spread of an infectious pathogen you can neither see nor restrain. You may not get a medal or public adoration for making a few sacrifices now in your social life, but the decisions that you make in this regard and at this time matter, even if they don’t seem meaningful to you. > > Stranger I think I’ll go look in the mirror - and hold up Stranger’s avatar in front of my face. A truly awesome post, Stranger. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/233 "2020-03-22T12:59:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Telling all of us that we’re gonna die if we contract COVID-19 is blatantly wrong. And telling me that I’m gonna end up in the ICU for believing as much is blatantly stupid. > > You can make your point without relying on wrongness and stupidity. It detracts from your otherwise cogent arguments. Okay, you MAY die. Is that better? Does that make you sleep easier at night? We are waaaay too relaxed about this contagion, and I’m seeing a lot of feel-good bullshit on TV, which unfortunately is being reinforced by the highest levels of government. Hand washing is good, but there’s hardly any emphasis at all on how the virus is most likely to infect people, and the fact is, the data show, that you are much more likely to get it through respiratory droplets than by touching a doorknob and rubbing your eyes. As I said, you absolutely should wash your hands, but my point is that people aren’t social distancing nearly enough because the wrong kind of information - or maybe not enough of the right kind of information - is getting out. People are hearing “social distancing” and stay 3-6 feet apart. But unless they really hear more information about the actual mode of transmission, this will mean nothing to them. The virus is airborne through millions of droplets that you cannot see, droplets that will circulate up, down, sideways, and all around, riding air currents for seconds, minutes, or hours. If you come into contact with those droplets, you’re in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/234 "2020-03-22T13:23:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … > People are hearing “social distancing” and stay 3-6 feet apart. But unless they really hear more information about the actual mode of transmission, this will mean nothing to them. The virus is airborne through millions of droplets that you cannot see, droplets that will circulate up, down, sideways, and all around, riding air currents for seconds, minutes, or hours. If you come into contact with those droplets, you’re in trouble. Here are some qualifications on that: > [@](#): > > … > “The current scientific consensus is that most transmission via respiratory secretions happens in the form of large respiratory droplets … rather than small aerosols,” he said. “Droplets, fortunately, are heavy enough that they don’t travel very far” and instead fall from the air after traveling only a few feet. > > Aerosols, by contrast, can potentially travel across far greater distances; the virus that causes chickenpox, for example, can travel tens of yards from an infected person and incite secondary infections elsewhere in the environment, and can remain in an area even after the person who emitted them has left. > … > [Source](https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-can-spread-as-an-aerosol.html) Not meant to make people complacent, so read the entire article to be as well-informed as possible \*right now. \*This has NOT been thoroughly studied yet-- too new, but it looks like this virus does not travel far or spread through a whole room and hang there for days. Another cite: > [@](#): > > …And, finally, the good news. While Covid-19 spreads through the air on respiratory droplets, there is one fact limiting how far the virus can travel: its weight. Coronaviruses are physically larger and heavier than other known respiratory viruses. So while Covid-19 infects hosts via mucus droplets, its infectious range is lower relative to other viruses because its mass limits how far it can travel before succumbing to gravity. Case in point, coronaviruses can only travel about one to two meters, less than seven feet, before they start falling to the ground. Compare that to much more infectious viruses like measles or chickenpox, both of which are much lighter and able to remain airborne on tiny dust particles. > [Source](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opinion/coronavirus-facts.html) IOW you probably don’t need to worry about breathing the air in a room half an hour after a COVID-infected person has left. The SURFACES-- yes, those might still have the virus on them. Hand-washing! No face-touching! It’s better to take more precautions than you think necessary until we (as a population) know more. But still keep our wits about us as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/235 "2020-03-22T13:29:08Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Okay, you MAY die. > > Is that better? Does that make you sleep easier at night? > > We are waaaay too relaxed about this contagion, and I’m seeing a lot of feel-good bullshit on TV, which unfortunately is being reinforced by the highest levels of government. Bro, just because I’m not screaming on the internets “WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!” doesn’t mean I’m relaxed about this. I’ve been on edge about this thing for the past 3-4 weeks. I’ve been fighting feel-good bullshit on the SDMB for that entire duration. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to let unnecessarily doom-and-gloom shit slide either. Yes, we are truly fucked right now, and a lot of people will end up in the ICU and die. But a lot of the ones who do will be folks who followed the CDC recommendations as best as they could. You are setting up the groundwork for blaming people for their own victimization. If I get sick and end up in the ICU, it won’t be my fault because I haven’t broken any of the “rules” or best practices. If I do get sick, it certainly won’t be because I disagreed with a faceless entity on the internet. I’m not gonna tell you to calm the fuck down because I hate when people say that to me. But like I said, you don’t have to give incorrect information to make your point. It detracts away from what you’re saying when you do this. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/236 "2020-03-22T14:44:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Here are some qualifications on that: > Not meant to make people complacent, so read the entire article to be as well-informed as possible \*right now. \*This has NOT been thoroughly studied yet-- too new, but it looks like this virus does not travel far or spread through a whole room and hang there for days. The virus doesn’t hang in the air for days, but it can hang in the air for minutes and hours. If you’re in a very large, spacious, well-ventilated room with one or two other people, the risk of infection is low. But let’s consider a more realistic scenario: “small” gatherings of people over for a small dinner or cocktail gathering, or maybe three or four people riding in an apartment complex elevator or in a community laundry room. Nobody’s showing visible signs of infection. One of the people standing close by is infected - not showing visible signs of infection but breathing through the mouth or talking. The longer you’re even within 3-6 feet of that person, the more likely you are to get infected. You can get infected by breathing in the air of an infected jogger who exhales as you inhale while passing you on the sidewalk. Obviously the greatest risk is to healthcare workers in a healthcare setting because they’re working in an enclosed environment and working with equipment that COVID-19 more easily aerosolized, but it’s wrong to assume that it requires a cough or a sneeze to infect. That’s a potentially fatal assumption to make. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/237 "2020-03-23T18:45:39Z")
It is true that some research has shown that this virus can be truly airborne – not just spread via large droplets from a cough or sneeze, and can hang in the air for hours as an aerosol. So, no, hand washing and staying 6 feet away won’t necessarily cover it. That is a big part, I think, of why the shelter in place orders have been happening. It isn’t enough to just do those things. You also have to stay out of space that others have recently occupied. There is other evidence though, to suggest that it is not primarily being spread by aerosols – it doesn’t probably become highly aerosolized that easily. > **[Research: Coronavirus Can Live For A Long Time In Air, On Surfaces](https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/815307842/research-coronavirus-can-live-for-a-long-time-in-air-on-surfaces)** > > A new study is first to examine how long the new coronavirus can survive on steel, plastic and cardboard. It can live up to 72 hours, but that's under idealized lab conditions, not the real world. > **[The new coronavirus can likely remain airborne for some time. That doesn’t...](https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/16/coronavirus-can-become-aerosol-doesnt-mean-doomed/)** > > Evidence suggests the new #coronavirus #Covid19 can exist as an aerosol only under very limited conditions, and this transmission route is not driving the pandemic. No one should be getting blamed for catching it unless they actively set out to do so, in my opinion. There is misinformation coming from the President and entire “news” networks – even the CDC in some limited instances\*. In addition, people are generally terrible at understanding risk, lots of people don’t understand the details of this risk, and lots of people still have to worry about who’s watching their kids and how they are going to get enough food to eat, so they don’t have time or mental bandwidth to read up on the latest research. People will get it who took all reasonable precautions, and people will get it who did not follow recommendations,. And some who don’t follow recommendations won’t get it. This is a time for thinking and acting collectively, not individually. I’m being as cautious as I reasonably can, because I’m able to, and that helps the people who can’t. - There’s already a thread discussing the “masks don’t work” line, and now the CDC has told healthcare workers who are running out of proper masks that they should use bandanas or other cloth masks “as a last resort.” But those could literally do more harm than good. [A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/238 "2020-03-23T19:25:15Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > There’s already a thread discussing the “masks don’t work” line, and now the CDC has told healthcare workers who are running out of proper masks that they should use bandanas or other cloth masks “as a last resort.” But those could literally do more harm than good. [A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/) I can’t sew, but I can hot glue. You think nurses and doctors will take hot glued masks? I want to do something to help this horrible situation. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/239 "2020-03-23T23:49:40Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I can’t sew, but I can hot glue. You think nurses and doctors will take hot glued masks? They likely will pass them on to visitors, not use them themselves. > [@](#): > > I want to do something to help this horrible situation. [Put kitteh to work.](http://blort.meepzorp.com/mjjj/cat-sewing.gif) 🆒 Relief agencies need donations of money and blood. Food delivery drivers are needed. See this Marketwatch piece [6 ways to help others during the coronavirus outbreak — ‘Everyone is a responder in this crisis’](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/everyone-is-a-responder-in-this-crisis-heres-where-you-can-donate-and-volunteer-2020-03-15) > [@](#): > > **How to help others during the coronavirus pandemic.** > > First, wash your hands properly and practice social distancing. then: > [ul] > [li] Get medical supplies shipped to where they’re needed most.[/li][li] Volunteer with Meals on Wheels.[/li][li] Donate money to reputable nonprofits.[/li][li] Support your local food bank.[/li][li] Give blood.[/li][li] Help people experiencing homelessness.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671/240 "2020-03-24T00:30:40Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The situation in the US is shaping up to be far worse than Italy. I hope not. There will be days when the U.S. caseload is growing greater than any other country, and days when it isn’t. Also, different places in Italy, and in the U.S. will have different experiences. Now, if we are lucky, American health care leaders have learned from the Northern Italy situation what not to do. I’m not totally confident this is happening. One lesson is to designate health care facilities as either for infectious and non-infectious cases, to reduce sick people in the hospital, for something else, from catching it. In 1918-19, at least that was done. Has anyone heard of it yet in the U.S.? I have heard of an infectious hospital _wing_. I’m not sure if that is isolation enough. Also, there need to be infectious and non-infectious ambulances. Is that being done? Re social distancing, I feel my family is doing it. Seeing the grandkids on screens only :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-questioning-the-extent-of-social-isolation/849671.md?page=13)