# Anyone else really annoyed with what happened to Digg today? \[DVD Encryption Key\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 2, 2007, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430 "2007-05-02T07:45:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Vision\_of\_Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Vision\_of\_Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vision_of_Love)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/1 "2007-05-02T07:45:48Z")
In short, someone found the HD-DVD encryption hex code which can essentially strip an HD-DVD of its DRM. It’s a big deal to the geeks and the geek wannabe herd (i.e. idiots who don’t even know what to do with the code) so it was front-paged on Digg. Digg received a cease-and-desist order shortly after (HD-DVD is also one of the site’s advertisers) and started to delete comments and stories that mentioned the hex code. Geeks and the herd got pissed. Look what happened. > **[News and Trending Stories Around the Internet | Digg](https://digg.com/)** > > Digg is the homepage of the internet, featuring the best articles, videos, and original content that the web is talking about right now. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/2 "2007-05-02T08:13:05Z")
I saw one post describing it as a ‘digital riot’. Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/3 "2007-05-02T08:19:54Z")
Okay, I never visit Digg, so what’s different now? ---
**Author:** ![Vision\_of\_Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Vision\_of\_Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vision_of_Love)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/4 "2007-05-02T08:21:20Z")
Kevin Rose, founder of Digg, apologizes. [http://blog.digg.com/?p=74](http://blog.digg.com/?p=74) I feel bad for the guy, and I respect him for not blowing up over this. ---
**Author:** ![Vision\_of\_Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Vision\_of\_Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vision_of_Love)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/5 "2007-05-02T08:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=Red Barchetta] Okay, I never visit Digg, so what’s different now? [/QUOTE] _[Link removed - SkipMagic]_ ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/6 "2007-05-02T08:51:13Z")
[QUOTE=Red Barchetta] Okay, I never visit Digg, so what’s different now? [/QUOTE] Me neither, but it looks like it’s been absolutely flooded with people posting the information that was the cause of the controversy. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/7 "2007-05-02T11:13:36Z")
I’m leaving this thread open because it’s a good topic for discussion; however, please be sure not to link to the key in question. While other sites may have the resources or the desire to fight a potential lawsuit, the SDMB has not made such claims. I also edited the title to make it less ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/8 "2007-05-02T12:19:28Z")
The MPAA will huff and puff and threaten to sue your house down if you have possession of the key. They did exactly the same thing with DeCSS code. In the middle of their tirade, Copyleft started selling ‘No CSS’ shirts with the first page of the code on the back. The shirt came packaged with a print out of the complete DeCSS code. The MPAA huffed and puffed and threatened to sue the house down of anyone who had the code. Well, I’ve had my shirt for six years. No word from the MPAA. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/9 "2007-05-02T12:40:41Z")
The impish side of me wants to post a poem I just created. It’s a list of decimal numbers that represent the hex numbers of the code, minus the number of the line they’re on. (The first line is, therefore, 8.) I might consider recording a dramatic reading of this poem, and placing it on a website. Don’t worry. I won’t really post it on the SDMB. I wouldn’t do that to this place. But I gotta say, the idea that a fucking _number_ can apparantly be copyrighted (or whatever) is completely fucking insane. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/10 "2007-05-02T13:14:34Z")
Shh. I’m in the process of copyrighting the numeric unlock code to the women’s restroom at work. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/11 "2007-05-02T13:56:30Z")
[QUOTE=BlackKnight] Don’t worry. I won’t really post it on the SDMB. I wouldn’t do that to this place. But I gotta say, the idea that a fucking _number_ can apparantly be copyrighted (or whatever) is completely fucking insane. [/QUOTE] It does seem absurd like that, I agree, but then again anything at all can be reduced to a set of numbers - the content itself on a DVD is stored as just a bunch of ones and zeroes, so unless you’re opposed to the concept of copyright in quite a broad sense, it is in fact reasonable that _some_ sequences of numbers (or what they mean) can be copyrighted. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/12 "2007-05-02T16:25:10Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] It does seem absurd like that, I agree, but then again anything at all can be reduced to a set of numbers - the content itself on a DVD is stored as just a bunch of ones and zeroes, so unless you’re opposed to the concept of copyright in quite a broad sense, it is in fact reasonable that _some_ sequences of numbers (or what they mean) can be copyrighted. [/QUOTE] I’m not trying to argue that “the copy of Spiderman 3 on my harddrive is just a number, your honor” is a good argument. But, as you say, anything can be represented by (I don’t like the phrase “reduced to” here) a sequence of numbers. With the proper format for decoding, the MPAA’s IP address is equivalent to a college essay of mine. That doesn’t mean I can sue them for copyright violation. It would be absurd of me to argue that since their IP (Internet Protocol) is really my IP (intellectual property) in disguise, that they can’t use the number. They can use the number all they want. I shouldn’t be able to stop anyone from reproducing that number. Now, if someone uses some software to read their IP and that software then follows some format or protocol and thereby recreates my intellectual property, then they’ve violated my copyright rights. I might not like people distributing their IP, but I wouldn’t feel any moral or legal right to make them stop. I know there are a number of philosophical and moral issues I’m glossing over here, but I think the idea that a number in itself is copyrightable is silly. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/13 "2007-05-02T16:29:08Z")
Come to think of it, maybe I should copyright my phonenumber. Whenever any telemarketers call me, I can sue them! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/14 "2007-05-02T16:45:19Z")
I’m annoyed, but not at the owners of Digg. I’m annoyed at the frothing-at-the-mouth, “information wants to be free!” lunatics who participated in the ‘riot’ to begin with. Before the site went down, pretty much every story on the front page was the key, and a rant blasting Digg. What the hell do these people expect Digg to do, ignore the cease-and-desist and risk a costly legal battle? All over an encryption key for some of the latest shit coming out of Hollywood? I guess that’s it - after all, it’s not their money, and their business. The whole thing strikes me as recreational outrage, although of a different sort than people complain about on here. I wonder how many people are genuinely _angry_ about it, and how many are just thinking “Ooh, here’s something that I can bitch about!” ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/15 "2007-05-02T19:02:47Z")
The posts about copyright are misguided: so far as I know, the MPAA hasn’t made any copyright issue out of the number, they simply consider it a device for circumventing access controls, and thus restricted under the DMCA. That having been said, of all the things one could try to remove from public view once it’s out there and there’s an interest in it, a mere 128 bits seems ridiculously infeasible. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/16 "2007-05-02T19:06:25Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] I’m annoyed, but not at the owners of Digg. I’m annoyed at the frothing-at-the-mouth, “information wants to be free!” lunatics who participated in the ‘riot’ to begin with. Before the site went down, pretty much every story on the front page was the key, and a rant blasting Digg. What the hell do these people expect Digg to do, ignore the cease-and-desist and risk a costly legal battle? All over an encryption key for some of the latest shit coming out of Hollywood? I guess that’s it - after all, it’s not their money, and their business. The whole thing strikes me as recreational outrage, although of a different sort than people complain about on here. I wonder how many people are genuinely _angry_ about it, and how many are just thinking “Ooh, here’s something that I can bitch about!” [/QUOTE] Also, one of the aspects of the controversy, probably the major aspect, was that Digg was censoring stories which _didn’t_ mention the number, but which merely mentioned the fact that Digg had censored earlier stories on the number. ---
**Author:** ![Improv\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@Improv\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improv_Geek)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/17 "2007-05-02T21:54:08Z")
For those not privy to what exactly went on, here is my breakdown for a friend: > [@](#): > > So the AACS who oversee HD-DVD declared the hex key to their HD stuff as intellectual property and began hitting websites with C/D letters to protect the key. Well it began getting digg stories. Digg gets a C/D letter and complies. Jay Adelson, CEO, blogs that they dislike doing it but they must comply with the law as it currently is. > > AND ALL FUCKING HELL BREAKS LOOSE > > At points the entire frontpage of Digg is hex key posts. People were being clever, converting it to decimal and posting it in two parts. Some had quizes which provided the hex key when you solved it. But Digg just went ape shit and users kept pushing the key. Digg began trying to fight the storm by removing some stories and banning users for breaking TOS but the storm kept going. I think at one point over 50,000 diggs had been placed on hex key stories alone. > > Finally Kevin Rose blogs that Digg is listening to its users and will no longer ban and bury stories relating to the hex key (which he used in his own blog post.) And he notes that Digg will fight future C/D letters and they may lose but they’ll at least fight the good fight. > > BoingBoing posted it this morning and Cory pointed out the more logical thing for Digg to do was to obey each C/D letter it got, removing each story as the C/D arrived and posting the C/D letter as a pdf. The kicker is that the C/D letter would contain the hex key anyways so they (AACS) wouldn’t really accomplish anything. > > Good stuff. I want a t-shirt with [hex key]+1 on it. > > The moral here is that the Internet shall rain flames and shit down upon thee if thy rely upon security through obscurity. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/18 "2007-05-03T20:35:42Z")
[QUOTE=Improv Geek] The moral here is that the Internet shall rain flames and shit down upon thee if thy rely upon security through obscurity. [/QUOTE] I believe the traditional admonition against relying on security through obscurity only refers to the _algorithm_ being used for the encryption, not the specific _key_. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/19 "2007-05-03T20:42:27Z")
[QUOTE=Nancarrow] I believe the traditional admonition against relying on security through obscurity only refers to the _algorithm_ being used for the encryption, not the specific _key_. [/QUOTE] Am I mistaken that this one key can be used to unlock every one of these DVDs? That’s security by obscurity. It’d be a different story if you had to know a different key for every DVD: sure, if you know _that key_, you’ll unlock _that DVD_. It’s different if one key will unlock everything: you’re just one successful social engineering experiment away from your whole scheme failing, not to mention successful code hacks. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430/20 "2007-05-03T20:43:03Z")
[QUOTE=Nancarrow] I believe the traditional admonition against relying on security through obscurity only refers to the _algorithm_ being used for the encryption, not the specific _key_. [/QUOTE] Right. Security through obscurity is not the problem here. The problem is that the MPAA doesn’t want us to have the key to our encrypted DVDs - but we need to have the key, in order to play them. So, they’re trying to give us the key, without actually giving it to us - which is ridiculous. The key is hidden somewhere in the player software, and if the _software_ can retrieve the key in order to decrypt the DVD, so can we. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-else-really-annoyed-with-what-happened-to-digg-today-dvd-encryption-key/402430.md?page=2)