# Anyone familiar with this racist term? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936 "2017-07-10T17:27:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/1 "2017-07-10T17:27:44Z")
UK MP is [suspended](http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/the-real-nr-in-the-woodpile-conservative-tory-british-mp-caught-using-n-word-while-defending-brexit/) for using the term “nigger in the woodpile.” I live in rural South Carolina and have never once heard the phrase. It is notable enough to [have a Wikipedia entry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger_in_the_woodpile), though, and I see from the wiki that the phrase has escaped from a British Lord. before this instance and even [shows up in one of Dr. Seuss’s less commendable artworks](http://www.complex.com/style/2015/05/super-racist-dr-seuss-drawing-heading-to-auction). So does this phrase still have life in some corners of the US and the UK? ---
**Author:** ![Floppy\_Joe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@Floppy\_Joe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floppy_Joe)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/2 "2017-07-10T17:34:57Z")
As W.C. Fields once said, “There’s a Ubangi in the fuel supply.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/3 "2017-07-10T17:35:03Z")
I’ve worked for (quite elderly) bosses who used it - and got away with it because everyone somehow accepts the bad behaviour of older people (maybe in the knowledge that the problem will go away when they do) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/4 "2017-07-10T17:35:49Z")
I’m not familiar with the term, but I don’t think “woodpile” is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/5 "2017-07-10T17:38:29Z")
I can’t remember the last time I heard the phrase, so it’s been decades at least. And I’m pretty sure the person I heard using it was quite elderly at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/6 "2017-07-10T17:59:01Z")
The W.C. Fields quote references a “Nubian,” I believe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/7 "2017-07-10T17:59:42Z")
I am familiar with that phrase in two different context. As an American I heard it as a way of saying: That person has some black ancestry from way back when. But in the early 90s, I was traveling to England a lot, and would work with my British counterparts in putting together presentations for the work we were doing. At one point, we were discussing some fairly complicated procedures, and one of the Brits made a comment about “a nigger in the woodpile”. Needless to say, I almost fell out of my chair as this was a meeting with a bunch of people (I was the only American, though). Later, it was explained to me that it meant there was something “not right” about it. Too complicated, or very ef’ed up. BTW, this person was not old (although he might be now). I’m thinking he was in his 30s at the time, as was I. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/8 "2017-07-10T18:47:21Z")
I heard it occasionally growing up. Something is fishy. Something doesn’t smell right. Are alternate and more polite slang terms. I often say, “this doesn’t pass the smell test”. It’s a reference to spoiled food. A bad student gets an B on a test. He misses the same three questions as the kid in front of him. Teacher, “This doesn’t smell right. This kid has never made a B before in any class.” > **[Nigger in the woodpile](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger_in_the_woodpile)** > > "Nigger in the woodpile" or "nigger in the fence" is a figure of speech originating in the United States meaning "some fact of considerable importance that is not disclosed—something suspicious or wrong". > Commonly used in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, its usage has since drastically declined owing to its use of the ethnic slur nigger, and use of the phrase by public figures has often been criticized owing to use of the slur in the term. > The phrase means an unknown factor, something ... > [@](#): > > A nigger in the woodpile or fence is a figure of speech[1] originating in America meaning “some fact of considerable importance that is not disclosed—something suspicious or wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/9 "2017-07-10T18:56:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As an American I heard it as a way of saying: That person has some black ancestry from way back when. Yes, didn’t realize until reading the thread it was used any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/10 "2017-07-10T18:56:58Z")
Goddamn, Dr. Seuss! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/11 "2017-07-10T18:59:31Z")
I am familiar with the phrase\* (I grew up in London in the 70s). I would only have associated it with clueless old people or perhaps equally clueless members of the upper classes. It is astonishing that such cluelessness is alive and well in 2017. And perhaps no coincidence that the phrase was uttered within the confines of the equally anachronistic East India Club. \*ETA: not in the “black ancestry” sense, but in the “concealed serious problem” sense. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/12 "2017-07-10T19:04:48Z")
I’m familiar with the term, in the sense of, “That person’s ancestry is not 100% white,” but never in a real world situation. I’ve seen it in fiction, usually as a marker that the speaker is not a good guy. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/13 "2017-07-10T19:08:05Z")
Yes, I’m familiar with it. Yes, I’ve heard people actually say it, though nearly always eliding the slur in favor of a not-very-euphemistic replacement. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/14 "2017-07-10T19:08:47Z")
I drive through Nigg quite often and I’ve never noted a woodpile there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/15 "2017-07-10T19:10:39Z")
I can’t remember ever hearing it. But after reading the thread (and understanding the term’s meaning), I’m sure someone, somewhere in my past has uttered that phrase. > [@Gatopescado](#): > > Goddamn, Dr. Seuss! :eek: I’m not going to any great length to defend it, but that frame is taken out of context. If you read the entire panel it makes more sense in a “sign of the times” scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/16 "2017-07-10T19:15:56Z")
I’ve only heard it in the context of adultery. When I broke up with my ex I guess he thought I’d been unfaithful and he talked to my dad about it. My dad asked me “Is there a (not going to write it) in the woodpile?” and I knew that he was referring to “is there another man you’re sneaking around with.” This was also nearly 24 years ago when such phrases were not as frowned upon. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/17 "2017-07-10T19:28:00Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I am familiar with the phrase\* (I grew up in London in the 70s). I would only have associated it with clueless old people or perhaps equally clueless members of the upper classes. It is astonishing that such cluelessness is alive and well in 2017. And perhaps no coincidence that the phrase was uttered within the confines of the equally anachronistic East India Club. > > \*ETA: not in the “black ancestry” sense, but in the “concealed serious problem” sense. > [@Miller](#): > > I’m familiar with the term, in the sense of, “That person’s ancestry is not 100% white,” but never in a real world situation. I’ve seen it in fiction, usually as a marker that the speaker is not a good guy. Now that I think about it, might the two meaning actually be the same? Saying that someone might have some black ancestry was/is akin to saying there was/is something fishy about his background. It’s just a little more explicit since one is conjecturing about an actual… black person. As the saying goes, from the wikipedia entry “some fact of considerable importance that is not disclosed”. If that is the case, I suspect the ancestry meaning came first, and then became more generalized to mean anything that didn’t seem quite “right”. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/18 "2017-07-10T19:31:21Z")
I have only ever hear it in reference to literal suspect ancestry. Of note, I have a caucasian relative with a causacian husband who gave birth to a mixed race child. Yes, the term was cheerfully bandied about by the family members because it so closely resembled the actual situation. This was in the early 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/19 "2017-07-10T19:49:41Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes, didn’t realize until reading the thread it was used any other way. Same here. Is Joseph Conrad considered to be British? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/20 "2017-07-10T19:54:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …If that is the case, I suspect the ancestry meaning came first, and then became more generalized to mean anything that didn’t seem quite “right”. It’s hard to see the initial connection between woodpile and ancestry. It seems more likely to me that the more generalized sense of “undisclosed problem” came first, in an era when nobody would have thought twice about the racist metaphor of a bad thing (escaped slave?) hidden in an everyday object; and that the more specific meaning arose later, through taking the original metaphor too literally. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936.md?page=2)