# Anyone familiar with this racist term? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936 "2017-07-10T17:27:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/41 "2017-07-10T22:46:47Z")
Yes, I’ve heard it in the context of having hidden black ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/42 "2017-07-10T22:57:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I don’t know if US usage parallels the UK, but it strikes me as a somewhat “literary” expression, or one associated with the dialect of the upper classes - something that I would have expected to hear from Bertie Wooster, not a coal miner. Not that the working classes were any less racist, just that doesn’t sound to me like working class vernacular. Funny, it strikes me as something you’d hear in the poorer, more rural areas of the US. It’s got a folksy ring to it, and racism was something that you’d find all classes of white people not that long ago. The reason I think the ancestry meaning might have come first, if this saying originated in the US, is that we’re a bit different in our knowledge of our ancestry than Europeans might be. Race mixing (of the non-consensual kind) was also very common in Colonial times and the days leading up to the Civil War. Our ancestry might look like a woodpile-- a disorganized jumble of who-knows-what. I could very easily see it referenced as a “woodpile”. In fact, there was some consternation among the landed gentry in the south when the anti-miscegenation laws were first crafted because a lot of families had rumors whispered about them, and those that didn’t were afraid some whispers might crop up. The laws were careful to specify what fraction of “Negro blood” was allowed. And with many of the upper classes claiming descent from Pocahontas, a special rule named after her had to be crafted wrt Native American race mixing to makes sure it didn’t apply to “decent folk”. The one-drop rule didn’t come into common, legal acceptance until the early part of the 20th century, when white folks could feel comfortable that any traces of black ancestry was lost in the distant past. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/43 "2017-07-10T23:09:37Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Neither did [all the potential bidders](http://www.vibe.com/2015/06/racist-dr-seuss-photo/). Care to enlighten all of us? Rich people treat black people as property. It’s ironic. I mean, you only have to know his rich sense of satire and irony to realize this. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/44 "2017-07-11T01:52:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In fact, there was some consternation among the landed gentry in the south when the anti-miscegenation laws were first crafted because a lot of families had rumors whispered about them, and those that didn’t were afraid some whispers might crop up. It was earlier than that, to be sure that children fathered on slave women could not inherit. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/45 "2017-07-11T02:15:03Z")
Family tree looks all proper but there’s (an undisclosed problem) in the woodpile. Obsolete, casual racist term for there being a hidden problem. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/46 "2017-07-11T02:42:47Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > **It** was earlier than **that** , to be sure that children fathered on slave women could not inherit. What (it) was earlier than what (that)? Emphasis added. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/47 "2017-07-11T02:57:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I don’t think it’s particularly an upper class issue over here. There are plenty of lower-class racists. I was not speaking to the comparative racism of the different classes. Just to which dialects might use this particular phrase. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/48 "2017-07-11T08:35:56Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > The W.C. Fields quote references a “Nubian,” I believe. What’s a Nubian? ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/49 "2017-07-11T09:13:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What’s a Nubian? [Nubian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubians) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/50 "2017-07-11T11:48:02Z")
> [@Floppy\_Joe](#): > > As W.C. Fields once said, “There’s a Ubangi in the fuel supply.” > [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > The W.C. Fields quote references a “Nubian,” I believe. Fields used it in two different movies. He used _Ubangi_ in the first, and _Ethiopian_ in the second. Never used _Nubian_. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/51 "2017-07-11T11:53:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I was not speaking to the comparative racism of the different classes. Just to which dialects might use this particular phrase. Again, I think you are mistaken. I fear the phrase was - and to an extent - remains common use by racists of all classes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/52 "2017-07-11T12:25:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What (it) was earlier than what (that)? Emphasis added. Laws defining what defined race. ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/53 "2017-07-11T12:36:48Z")
The BBC say: \*The phrase originated in the American Deep South in the mid-19th Century and is thought to have referred to slaves having to conceal themselves as they sought to flee north and secure their freedom. It was subsequently used in the 20th Century - including by a number of leading novelists - as a metaphor to describe a hidden fact or problem. \* In the UK I personally have never heard it used to suggest any kind of mixed heritage. However the contained racist slur means it is automatically offensively archaic today. It is a hopelessly outdated expression from a previous era when Agatha Christie, for example, could call a story ‘ **Ten Little Niggers** ’ or a WW2 Dambusters pilot could call his black dog ‘ **Nigger**.’ TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/54 "2017-07-11T13:28:16Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Laws defining what defined race. The laws I was referring to were from the mid 19th century. Which laws were you thinking of that were earlier than that? I’m not talking about laws that referred to “Negroes” or “Whites”, but laws that actually defined who was which according to how much Negro or White “blood” a person had. There were laws that defined the status of the child as that of the mother (instead of the usual case, where it was the father), but those still didn’t define how to determine a person’s race. A “mulatto” was understood to be someone of mixed ancestry, but I’m not aware of it being defined as a certain % before the mid 19th century. I could be wrong, though. Did you have specific laws in mind? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/55 "2017-07-11T13:34:31Z")
That phrase was common in New England where I (and Dr. Seuss) grew up. It meant that something hidden was making things not work right. I haven’t heard it in about four decades. And I don’t use the “N-word” though I know a few people to whom it would apply. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/56 "2017-07-11T14:01:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The laws I was referring to were from the mid 19th century. Which laws were you thinking of that were earlier than that? I’m not talking about laws that referred to “Negroes” or “Whites”, but laws that actually defined who was which according to how much Negro or White “blood” a person had. > > There were laws that defined the status of the child as that of the mother (instead of the usual case, where it was the father), but those still didn’t define how to determine a person’s race. A “mulatto” was understood to be someone of mixed ancestry, but I’m not aware of it being defined as a certain % before the mid 19th century. I could be wrong, though. Did you have specific laws in mind? I’m coming up with nothing on Google. Such laws existed in the South to ensure that a child fathered on a slave could not inherit. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/57 "2017-07-11T14:12:14Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I haven’t heard it in about four decades. And I don’t use the “N-word” though I know a few people to whom it would apply. You know a few people to whom you feel a racial slur would apply? Would you care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/58 "2017-07-11T14:16:01Z")
I know two people who act like stereotypes of that word, and I would call them that if I used that words. No apology offered. I call them the dog and the bitch (another word I rarely use). ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/59 "2017-07-11T14:20:42Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I know two people who act like stereotypes of that word, and I would call them that if I used that words. No apology offered. > > I call them the dog and the bitch (another word I rarely use). In other words, you mentally call people niggers, you just won’t use your lips to form the word. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936/60 "2017-07-11T14:23:12Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I know two people who act like stereotypes of that word, and I would call them that if I used that words. No apology offered. No apology requested. But it sure suggests an awful lot about your way of _thinking_, even if you don’t utter the words. As I think this is heading toward hijack territory, I’ll just bow out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-familiar-with-this-racist-term/790936.md?page=4)