Well, as Evil One noted, this thread is for the politically mature who don’t see issues in simplistic black and white. There isn’t any magic deadline at which point Obama suddenly becomes responsible for things that aren’t his fault.
He’s responsible for coping with them as best he can, sure, but you don’t get to suddenly pretend that all the continuing fallout from the previous guys’ massive fuckups ought to be blamed on him.
Awww, the widdle conservatives are so kyoot when they suddenly discover that they ought to be indignant about environmental hazards! Who’s a kyoot wittle greeny-righty, then? Here, have an organic flaxseed biscuit!
The market was over 12,000 when Pelosi/Reid took over; it’s under 10,000 today. It hasn’t come close to the 14,000 high. But I should have left the word “especially” out of my post.
But since you’re into the fiscal side of things, what do you think of the national debt these days?
I notice that you attempt to use the same type of sophistry that Obama uses. You take a position to the ridiculous extreme - even though no one on the other side has ever said anything close to that. Then you debate the idiotic point you just made.
So who is the conservative that has set forth this “magic deadline at which point Obama suddenly becomes responsible for things that aren’t his fault.” And what date is it, by the way? Please cite, or STFU.
So you try to sidestep the question: When does Obama become responsible? Are you totally incapable of shades of gray thinking? And you complain about B/W thinking by conservatives!
Right, the dual argument of: Obama is an empty suit, utterly useless and powerless. He can’t get anything done. Oh and by the way he’s the most scheming machiavellian figure ever who has single handedly turned us into a nazicommunist nation in less than 2 years! HE IS DESTROYING OUR VERY COUNTRY AND WAY OF LIFE YET SOMEHOW HE DOES THIS WHILE NOT BEING ABLE TO GET ANYTHING DONE. HE’S USING THE POWER OF THE PARADOX TO ADVANCE HIS CRYPTOCOMMUNAZI AGENDA!!!
It’s even more funny that the shit they criticize him for, like not getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan more quickly, are actually things they wouldn’t support anyway. If Obama pulls out quickly it’s OMG HE’S TARNISHED THE IMAGE OF AMERICA WITH HIS COWARDLY CUT AND RUN and if he pulls out more slowly it’s OMG OBAMA CAN’T GET ANYTHING DONE.
Unemployment is up because of a massive economic failure caused by policies supported by the previous administration. Did you expect the economy to rebound to a booming one the day of the inauguration? It takes time to dig yourself out of an economic hole.
The market is up under Obama. You have to count the period where he wasn’t even in power to blame him for this.
Debt is indeed ridiculously high. Some of it is definitely his fault. But it’s not some obscure idea that we needed to take on more debt to dig ourselves out of the massive economic hole. The debt was massive when he took office - was he supposed to fix it all in 18 months?
No, you douchetard, pretty much everyone here only says he’s done a decent job with a crappy situation. No one here has even remotely implied he was perfect.
You essentially have to set the bar ridiculously high and then claim he hasn’t worked miracles and therefore is an utter failure. He simply can’t fix many of the problems you list.
You seem mighty interested in the national debt these days, where the fuck were you when Bush was adding $4 trillion to it? Debt is a tool you use when cash is tight. That’s what Obama is doing. What was Bush doing nearly doubling the national debt during a period of national prosperity? Maybe you can shed some light on that, since you’re so concerned about the debt and all.
No, 2010 is still on Bush’s watch, according to your standards. Remember this?
Besides, why all the doom and gloom? You were claiming everything was peachy and that there was no recession in the middle of 2008, even though the recession actually began in Dec 2007. If Bush were still pres, you’d be starting threads telling us how great the economy is (and yes, I can link to just such posts from you when the economy was in the shitter).
Did George Will tell you that the economy is bad this time?
Actually I think that Bush made a big mistake when he (along with Pelosi/Reid) added to the national debt. I just think that Obama is making things a whole lot worse. The numbers show that.
It’s nice of you to remind us that the Bush years were a time of prosperity. They certainly were, at least until Pelosi/Reid. I should remember that not all leftists are pure B/W thinkers.
Too late at night to even google this, but are you sure that Bush added $4 billion in debt? In any event the more debt, the more I complain.
So the concensus seems to be that those who never bought are feeling buyer’s remorse, and almost no one else is.
Perhaps that shows us that those who didn’t buy in 2008 would be wise to purchase some Obama in 2012. That ought to eliminate their remorse, and make them happier souls.
By definition there was no recession that could be called in the middle of 2008 if it started in December, 2007. You should know that.
Since you obviously have no life if you have the time to go through my history here, could you cite the post where I have something positive to say about George Will? Seriously. I’d love to read it again and try to figure out what I was thinking.
For the record the economy prospered, to use cosmic relief’s term until some point in 2007. It went down slightly in early 2008 but not by much. If someone said the economy was doing fine in August, 2008, that’s a defensible position. It really stank after September 2008. If I said the economy was doing great after that point let me know, and if called for, I will withdraw the statement.
And what major event happened in the interim? Try the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression. Since the Democrats took control of Congress in early 2007, about two years before Obama assumed office, why is this relevant to a thread about Obama? You post crap like this and then complain about sophistry?
Compared to what? Employment has been unevenly, but slowly improving.
Why? The policies of both parties are to blame for some of the factors that caused or contributed to the recession. Unless you’re saying that the Democratic Congress was so diabolically efficient that they managed to cause it in the fewer than 12 months they had control of Congress?
Is this mostly the fault of Obama and the post-2007 Congress? And regardless of that fact, should we take the Hoover approach to an economic crisis and let the markets sort themselves out no matter how long it takes them?
Since many conservatives never wanted Guantanamo closed, it’s odd that this is being used as a criticism. Obama’s original timeline was naive and unrealistic, especially since so many congressmen have raised cackles about even the possibility of detainees being transferred to maximum security prisons in their districts or states.
Specifically, which law would that be? If it’s so open, quote the law and show exactly which actions violate which provisions.
Partially true. Holder weakly buckled after some Republicans, particularly John McCain, bellowed their outrage that the would-be Times Square bomber was given a Miranda warning despite his apparent cooperation afterwards. Thankfully, despite Holder saying that perhaps terrorists should not be afforded the same protections under Miranda as other criminal suspects, nothing seems to have been changed about this. In other words, this isn’t much of a complaint.
The particular Deepwater Horizon oil drill was nine years old before it exploded. By your logic, whoever happens to be in office at the time something bad happens is responsible. So, who was president nine years ago?
You said we weren’t in a recession, not that you didn’t know, not that the NBER report wasn’t out yet, but that we weren’t in one. For fuck’s sake, dude, in 2008 you were claiming that the last recession was in 1991. Did you miss 2001?
I have a quite wonderful life, thank you very much. I happen to know your posting history because I’m the guy (well, one of the many) who keeps debunking your ass in economics threads, with thorough citations, using YOUR metrics, to prove that the latest right-wing glurgemeister you are fawning over happens to be wrong. As for what you were thinking, I’m waiting for you to actually do that for yourself once.
I see you skipped over the part where I demonstrate that you are holding Obama to a different timetable than Bush. Much like you ignore the mountains of evidence contradicting you in every single economics thread I’ve seen you post in. Want to explain why it was Clinton’s recession in 2002, but it’s not Bush’s in 2010?
The fact that you interpret my previous posts in this manner is actually a good demonstration of the fact that you are either the most mendacious person ever to use the internet, or you are as dumb as a bag of hammers.
I’m going to go back to ignoring you now, because debating you as if you had functioning neurons is a fruitless exercise.
Who’s a kyoot wittle greeny-righty, then? Here, have an organic flaxseed biscuit!