# Anyone here ever written a book? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 2, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204 "2007-08-02T23:00:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/41 "2007-08-06T01:42:34Z")
I’m another who has an unpublished novel. Frankly, it sucks, so I’m not even going to try to get it published. I did write a book on horse racing back in 1990 or so, and published it. It’s now out of print, but I’m working (sporadically) on another edition of it. I was a technical writer for a number of years, and probably have at least 40 user, training, and maintenance manuals to my name. They’ll never make a movie out of them, and nobody reads them anyway. But they’re books. I also wrote a series of three textbooks on insurance underwriting. These took about a year apiece to write, and involved a lot of research. But I managed to do the job. I’m quite proud of them, and I actually got to cite myself when I used them as secondary sources for a paper I wrote last year. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/42 "2007-08-06T03:18:36Z")
I had some interest in mine from a college publishing house (actually through someone who read some of my stuff on the I’net, but not here), but while flattered I wasn’t interested. It’s very important to me that whoever agrees to publish it be able to promote it as I’ve no interest in it just lying there, OR that I can at least get an advance that will allow me to pay for a publicist. I’ve known too many people who’ve written books of varying quality that just lay there and never even find their way to Books[a]Million, Barnes & Noble, etc., let alone Wal-Mart. ---
**Author:** ![Lunar\_Saltlick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/977dab/32.png) [@Lunar\_Saltlick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lunar_Saltlick)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/43 "2007-08-06T14:51:34Z")
[QUOTE=Spoons] I’m another who has an unpublished novel. Frankly, it sucks, so I’m not even going to try to get it published. … I was a technical writer for a number of years, and probably have at least 40 user, training, and maintenance manuals to my name. They’ll never make a movie out of them, and nobody reads them anyway. But they’re books. … [/QUOTE] Ditto. My technical manuals embarrass me, and while some have never been read, others have been used by a surprising number of people. My unpublished novel doesn’t suck, but it needs work, at least a second draft and probably a third before I can even try to get an agent’s interest. It’s approximately 120,000 words. My second novel is holding at about 10,000 words and my third is half-written in my head. To me, that’s an important part of writing the novel – getting some key scenes written in your head before going to paper or the computer screen. Once they’re in your head, write 'em down in any sequence and re-arrange them later. That gives you a good fifty-page start right off the bat. I never let myself get stuck on the first page/sentence/chapter. I’ve published a couple of short stories, a film review and an article or two, but nothing of any length. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/44 "2007-08-06T15:39:20Z")
I’ve never actually written a book, though I’m developing a story idea right now that might end up being a full-length novel. I have, however, _edited_ books, and that’s exhausting in a completely different way. Good Lord. You have no idea how many errors and inconsistencies there are in a manuscript until you start looking for them. And, of course, this is the publishable stuff. The things I’ve read that weren’t publishable…well, I _still_ have nightmares. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/45 "2007-08-06T19:07:59Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] Did they give you a reason? Ours was _graphic sexual content_, which is ridiculous, because they’ll carry other romance novels and I _know_ our sexual content isn’t any more graphic than, say, Harlequin Blaze. Borders insisted the publisher change our cover, even though they had already done a lot of expensive promo with the first cover. Jerks. [/QUOTE] Welcome to the wonderful world of pron, pepperlandgirl! I keep saying my novels have plot and characterization, too! Doesn’t do a BIT of good. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/46 "2007-08-07T05:51:32Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] Did they give you a reason? Ours was _graphic sexual content_, which is ridiculous, because they’ll carry other romance novels and I _know_ our sexual content isn’t any more graphic than, say, Harlequin Blaze. Borders insisted the publisher change our cover, even though they had already done a lot of expensive promo with the first cover. Jerks. [/QUOTE] No, no such thing. Ours is a throughly harmless graphic novel series for elementary-age girls. We’re just not yet big enough, frankly. They’re looking at Disney Princesses and Barbie and only about three of the Junie B. Jones titles. Until we’re on the NYT bestseller list for quite a while, I don’t expect much movement on their part. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/47 "2007-08-07T05:55:22Z")
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that a Newberry award-winning author and her sister are peddling smut…if that’s how you read it. I imagine the difficulties facing a children or YA author is probably a whole different ball of wax than what we’re dealing with. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/48 "2007-08-07T06:15:33Z")
I’m on number, um, nine I think. (I’m starting to lose count). Two d20 adventures (one published, one to be published eventually), and seven novels. Three will never see the light of day. One is out on submission with my agent. One is ready for her to read and suggest edits on. One is in first draft stage and set aside for now and one is being written. > [@Phantom Dennis](#): > > How do you guys develop the stamina and willpower to finish a book? I’ve dreamed of writing a book on occasion, and I’ve even started writing a few, but I always get discouraged and lose interest after a few thousand words. How do you force yourself to keep writing knowing that 1) the finished product may not be good enough to publish, and 2) even if it’s a masterpiece, it may still be impossible to find a publisher? (Love the username.) You have to push through the slowdown period(s). You have to keep writing even when you think it sucks or you don’t feel like it. I have to remind myself that even if what I’m writing sucks now, it probably won’t suck in revision. After all, I’ve written plenty of stuff that seemed terrible when I was writing it but turned out to be interesting later. And if the finished product isn’t good enough to get published, if you don’t write the unpublishable stuff, how will you ever get good enough to write publishable material? You don’t pick up a violin and say to yourself, “If I can’t play to a professional level the first time I touch bow to string, I shouldn’t even bother starting.” And most people don’t write well enough to get published the first time they write a book. For the record, I’ve read one of **pepperlandgirl’s** books, and she’s an excellent writer. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/49 "2007-08-07T06:20:05Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] Borders insisted the publisher change our cover… [/QUOTE] :eek: :mad: What the fuck? Unless you had a picture of someone fucking a goat on the cover, I can’t imagine why it’s any of Border’s business what’s on the cover of your book. They’re a major bookseller–they should sell books instead of trying to act as everyone’s nanny. And by the way, I have written an academic book which is under review at a couple of publishers. Took about 3 years. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/50 "2007-08-07T06:21:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] :eek: :mad: What the fuck? Unless you had a picture of someone fucking a goat on the cover, I can’t imagine why it’s any of Border’s business what’s on the cover of your book. They’re a major bookseller–they should sell books instead of trying to act as everyone’s nanny. [/QUOTE] I think (though **pepper** should correct me if I’m wrong), it has to do with whether the customer is willing to walk up to the counter with the book. If the cover is too racy, the customer will be too embarrassed to buy the book. There’s a reason Ellora’s Cave became such a popular publisher in a rather quick time. There was a serious market for erotica, but the customers weren’t willing to buy the books in the bookstores. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/51 "2007-08-07T06:45:57Z")
Our cover was _not_ racy (though that is definitely a broader issue, and one reason why epublishers are doing well, as **DeadlyAccurate** pointed out). In fact, it was one of the most gorgeous covers I’ve ever seen, and I fell in love with it from the beginning–our editor, too. No, the problem given from the Borders rep was that it didn’t convey enough of what the book was about–it was just our beautiful heroine standing in front of a scene of Los Angeles at night. Honestly, I would bet $5 that it wasn’t racy _enough_. The cover didn’t look like a romance cover–it’s urban fantasy/romance–and I bet Borders wants to shelve it with the romance books. As for why Borders gets a say? Well, I don’t know all the particulars, so I’m could be wrong about this, but it has something to do with the distributor. Publishers have distributors to get their books in stores. The sort of publisher **Sampiro** was referring to tends to be so small they don’t have distribution, just an account sent up with Ingrams (which is not a distributor), and hence, no presence in bookstores. The distributor has salespeople who go from store to store with big catalogues and they show off the goods to whoever it is in charge of buying stock for the store. Our publisher is small but respected, but our imprint is brand new. So new, in fact, that our book was one of four chosen to go to mass market paperback (rather than just trade paperback) in 2007. I’m _assuming_ that the Borders rep (and the WalMart rep, the B&N rep, etc etc) has more say on our covers and stuff because our publisher is just getting its toes wet right now. Reps aren’t just deciding to stock our book, they’re really looking at establishing a relationship with the publisher. And a long-term relationship requires a good first impression, you know? So, um, is that clear as mud? And thank you **DeadlyAccurate** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/52 "2007-08-07T13:26:31Z")
Well, that makes more sense than my initial assumption, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/53 "2007-08-07T15:10:57Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that a Newberry award-winning author and her sister are peddling smut…if that’s how you read it. I imagine the difficulties facing a children or YA author is probably a whole different ball of wax than what we’re dealing with. [/QUOTE] I don’t think you’re peddling smut. I don’t think I’m peddling smut, for that matter. I just think the trad book publishing industry is completely off the rails where adult content is concerned. It’s true there’s a big demand for erotica, but the thing is, what fuels the demand is the freedom authors on the Internet have had to write stories with extremely strong sexual content that also have plot and characterization. Trad publishers haven’t caught on to that yet. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/54 "2007-08-07T18:53:37Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that a Newberry award-winning author and her sister are peddling smut…if that’s how you read it. I imagine the difficulties facing a children or YA author is probably a whole different ball of wax than what we’re dealing with. [/QUOTE] Ha! No, I didn’t assume that. But it’s not unreasonable that children’s books could run into content issues with the ultraconservative types who form Wal-Mart’s core audience. For instance, much of the Manga now being marketed to American kids is totally unsuitable for those kids vis a vis US sexual mores. But our series is intentionally quite clean, so there’s no conflict on that count. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/55 "2007-08-07T19:02:17Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] As for why Borders gets a say? Well, I don’t know all the particulars, so I’m could be wrong about this, but it has something to do with the distributor. … I’m _assuming_ that the Borders rep (and the WalMart rep, the B&N rep, etc etc) has more say on our covers and stuff because our publisher is just getting its toes wet right now. Reps aren’t just deciding to stock our book, they’re really looking at establishing a relationship with the publisher. And a long-term relationship requires a good first impression, you know? [/QUOTE] More on this: We’re starting a second graphic-novel series now, and were originally going to make it a bit cheaper, with a cover that didn’t have french flaps. But the salespeople and bookstore chains’ book-buyers have been so enamored with the french flaps from our current series (we put all sorts of bonuses on the inside and outside for kids to discover) that our publisher is trying to re-do their profit-and-loss calculations to figure out a way to keep the flaps on the new series. So, depending on the size of the publisher, distributor, and bookstore, influence (or “Advice,” if you prefer) can vary greatly, and publishers may rely a great deal on the wisdom of the people out in the trenches who actually witness daily what sells and what doesn’t (what sells both to consumers and to bookstore chains’ purchasing agents). ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/56 "2007-08-07T21:59:24Z")
My case is kinda unusual, in that my published novel was a work for hire – in other words, I’d been specifically hired by the publisher to write a book for their line of personalized romance novels in a variety of genres. (It’s a regular slightly shortish romantic/comedy novel, 75K words, but customers can order their copies with custom names and character descriptions.) So my novel wasn’t really one of those artistic, self-inspired “had to write it, came from the heart!” dealies, which made writing it somewhat more difficult. Basically I was given a premise (“hero and heroine meet when they participate in a reality TV show”) and then developed the plot, characterizations and even the flippin’ gameshow rules on my own. I was given the job in the autumn with the publication date of early January, since the publisher wanted to promote the thing for Valentine’s Day. The time constraint and the word limit were both hellish for someone like me who tends to write _long_. At this point I’d been writing/self-publishing my own online serial drama series for four years straight, but having to come up with a beginning/middle/end in two months was a tremendous strain on my system. But hey, it worked. External deadlines can be useful things. The trick I discovered was to outline _backwards_: I knew how the book would end, so I wrote a simple line detailing the final scene, let’s call it “scene Z.” Then I asked myself: “okay, what would have to happen immediately prior to scene Z?” Once I answered this question, I’d jot that scene down, and ask myself the same thing about what would happen to lead up to scene Y. Then continue to work backward. It’s a remarkably helpful method, especially in a mystery or other highly plot-based story. ---
**Author:** ![hdagent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/91b2a8/32.png) [@hdagent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hdagent)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/57 "2007-08-08T16:20:18Z")
I’ve written an eBook and I have two more in the works…Does that count? They were written with the novice computer user in mind, specifically the type who dreads having to call for technical support. As a tech support expert, I found that writing the material came rather easily as long as I maintained a conversational tone…I also write a newsletter at my website which features information for anyone who wants to be safe and savvy at computing. Writing about what you know is far less challenging than making stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/58 "2007-08-08T16:24:28Z")
I have several ideas for novels or novellas and one or two subjects I’m passionate about to write factual books about however I think I lack the discipline required to complete a longterm project like a book. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2007, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/59 "2007-08-10T03:29:17Z")
[QUOTE=choie] The trick I discovered was to outline _backwards_: I knew how the book would end, so I wrote a simple line detailing the final scene, let’s call it “scene Z.” Then I asked myself: “okay, what would have to happen immediately prior to scene Z?” Once I answered this question, I’d jot that scene down, and ask myself the same thing about what would happen to lead up to scene Y. Then continue to work backward. It’s a remarkably helpful method, especially in a mystery or other highly plot-based story. [/QUOTE] I cannot believe that I have been writing for 22 years and never, ever thought of doing that. Or that if it was mentioned in a workshop/critique group, the idea never sunk in. What a fantastic tool, and I am going to try it. To be on topic, I am working on my fourth, or maybe fifth, attempt at a novel. I have produced 50-90,000 word chunks that I thought were novels, but didn’t quite ever set. Every time I get a little better at it, though! I even once finished NaNoWriMo. (Ah, to have the luxury of only a part-time job again…) The current baby is called “Gathered Like Stones” and I am just trying to see if a) I can write a story between 80,000-100,000 words, and b) please myself. A short story is so easy in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2007, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204/60 "2007-08-10T06:35:02Z")
One small gaming supplement. Made 1000. Hwaaaay too much work for that much . But it did give me quite a bit of cred amoung my group. The Gov’t internally published a Proc manual I wrote, but I got paid nothing extra. Does that count? **RealityChuck** : tell us more, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-here-ever-written-a-book/414204.md?page=4)