# Anyone know of any books, dictionary or thesaurus that focus on old timey or antiquated langue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 4, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511 "2019-03-04T01:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/1 "2019-03-04T01:52:11Z")
It’s rare that I come up with a problem I can’t even Google, but googling “old-timey dictionary” just brings 1000s of dictionaries with the word entry “old-timey.” I am looking for any books or online resources of antiquated and old-timey (see: old west/turn of the century) idioms, phrases, and terms. I vaguely recall on a The Simpsons DVD commentary someone discussing such a book they refer to for the antiquated terms Mr. Burns often use. I have found some Old English books but I’m looking for more like 1800s. I’d love any advice. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/2 "2019-03-04T02:13:46Z")
\*A Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue \* from 1811 is a fascinating source, though it’s specifically British English. There are various old dictionaries at [archive.org](http://archive.org) and you can find them in Google books, all public domain. One trick I’ve found is to do a search for a word using Google Ngram viewer and then look for examples at the bottom. It will often lead you to public domain dictionaries. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/3 "2019-03-04T02:36:46Z")
Not what you’re looking for, but the Devil’s Dictionary is a fun read (for intellectualist values of “fun”) and, being a century or two old, it probably does feature a larger set of words that have died off over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/4 "2019-03-04T02:54:38Z")
Googling _folk sayings book_ gives a number of choices, as does _folk speech book_. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/5 "2019-03-04T02:56:48Z")
I found [this](https://mess1.homestead.com/nineteenth_century_slang_dictionary.pdf), but I suspect it contains everything the referenced book (1800s guide to writing) has. I’ve also been suggested Cassell’s Dictionary of Slang. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/6 "2019-03-04T03:01:15Z")
> **[A Dictionary of the Underworld](https://books.google.com/books/about/A_Dictionary_of_the_Underworld.html?id=BznLPQAACAAJ)** > > Originally published: New York: The Macmillan Company, 1950. xv, 804 pp. Reprint of the second edition. Thoroughly engrossing, A Dictionary of the Underworld offers definitions for such obscure terms and phrases as "witch-hazel man" (heroin addict),... A classic in its field, with many entries traced back to the 19th and even earlier centuries. No library is complete without one. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/7 "2019-03-04T03:01:23Z")
[Here is one for the Virginia area that you might cotton to](https://books.google.com/books?id=KmYPAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA27&ots=cxMi7acuqo&dq=folk%20sayings%20book&pg=PA129#v=onepage&q&f=false). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/8 "2019-03-04T03:11:59Z")
[Some archive.org choices](https://archive.org/search.php?query=Folk-speech). ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/9 "2019-03-04T07:45:08Z")
There’s the _Historical Thesaurus of English_. [https://ht.ac.uk/](https://ht.ac.uk/) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/10 "2019-03-04T10:06:58Z")
Some of the work of [Eric Partridge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Partridge) might fit the bill. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/11 "2019-03-04T12:46:21Z")
You might want to check out _Passing English of the Victorian Era_ by James Redding Ware. It’s a dictionary of Victorian slang (mostly, but not exclusively, British) with very colourful explanations of the terms and their putative origins. You can see some examples in a recent quiz of mine from _Babel: The Language Magazine_: [Vulgar Victorian Vocabulary](https://cloud.3dissue.com/18743/41457/106040/issue19new/index.html?page=39) ([answers](https://cloud.3dissue.com/18743/41457/106040/issue19new/index.html?page=51)) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/12 "2019-03-04T13:23:51Z")
[Brewer’s](https://www.amazon.com/Brewers-Dictionary-Phrase-Fable-20th/dp/1473676363/ref=sr_1_1?crid=28ZV8V165DBV&keywords=brewer%27s+dictionary+of+phrase+and+fable&qid=1551705769&s=gateway&sprefix=brewer%27s%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-1). It’s all you’ll really ever need. One of my All-Time favorite reference books. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/13 "2019-03-04T13:45:36Z")
[The Superior Person’s Book of Words](https://www.amazon.com/Superior-Persons-Book-Words/dp/087923556X) and subsequent volumes by Peter Bowler contain many obscure words, including a lot of archaic or obsolete ones. In addition, they are quite funny. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/14 "2019-03-04T18:31:15Z")
I think the OP’s best strategy is just to read novels and plays from that era that represent the regional dialects they’re interested in, and use one of the many reference works suggested here to look up expressions that are unfamiliar. The best way to know how people’s language sounded in a certain period is to read dialogue that was written in that period (although of course written language doesn’t perfectly mirror spoken language). ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/15 "2019-03-04T18:47:21Z")
I have a copy of _Forgotten English_, which I haven’t picked up in a while, but I recall enjoying. > **[Forgotten English](https://books.google.com/books/about/Forgotten_English.html?id=BlWFQgAACAAJ&source=kp_book_description)** > > Have you ever sent a message via scandaroon, needed a nimgimmer, or fallen victim to bowelhive? Never heard of these terms? That's because they are a thing of the past. These words are alive and well, however, in Forgotten English, a charming... ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/16 "2019-03-04T20:12:09Z")
A bit specialised in its focus on one book series: _A sea of words: a lexicon and companion to the complete seafaring tales of Patrick O’Brian_ There are probably other historical dictionaries and guides for Sherlock Holmes, Jane Austin and other popular major writers which would contain a mixture of dictionaries with some of the specific language being used in the books, and broader discussion about the times and context of the stories. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-of-any-books-dictionary-or-thesaurus-that-focus-on-old-timey-or-antiquated-langue/830511/17 "2019-03-04T20:14:49Z")
[Dictionary of Early English](https://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Early-English-Joseph-Shipley/dp/0806529261) by Joseph T. Shipley is a treat and a treasure.