# anyone know the origin of the phrase "screwed up"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 6, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578 "2009-03-06T20:51:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/1 "2009-03-06T20:51:50Z")
Where does this phrase come from? I’m curious whether the ‘screwed’ part is in any way related to the use of ‘screw’ to indicate intercourse, etc., or if it arrived in the language some other way? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/2 "2009-03-06T21:04:00Z")
Looking through the OED, it originally mean “to raise prices.” > [@OED](#): > > 1631 W. BRADFORD Hist. Plymouth Plant. (1896) 357 He scrued vp his poore old father in laws accounte to aboue 200li and brought it on ye generall accounte. When someone screws up your payments like this, it also screws up your planning. The sexual meaning of “screw” came later, though the term may have affected the etymology. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/3 "2009-03-06T21:56:45Z")
thanks…a woman got quite ‘offended’ when she heard me use the word the other day, which struck me as odd. She said that I shouldn’t use such ‘adult language’ around children, which perplexed me, because I had never thought of the two terms as being related before. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/4 "2009-03-06T22:41:03Z")
The OED? “Screwed up” is obviously a slightly cleaned up version of “fucked up”. That there was an old-timey phrase that meant something different is just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/5 "2009-03-06T23:24:07Z")
From [The English Blog](http://jeffreyhill.typepad.com/english/2009/02/obama-screws-up.html). > [@](#): > > Obama is not the first president to use the expression in public. In an article written in 1990, William Safire relates that some people were shocked when George Bush Senior jokingly told a group of students at the University of Tennessee that some of them had their priorities “all screwed up”. Safire explains the origin of the term: > > > [@](#): > > > > In World War II, the particle up used in combination with a verb made an impact on slang. Louse up, ball up, gum up, mess up, foul up were among the less offensive forms meaning ‘‘to botch, to make an egregious mistake, to bungle, to err repeatedly.’’ Screw up, in this sense, is first found in a December 1942 issue of Yank, and was further popularized in the 1951 ‘’ Catcher in the Rye,‘’ the famed novel by J. D. Salinger: ‘‘Boy, it really screws up my sex life something awful.’’ The verb is both transitive (screw up my sex life) and intransitive (I really screwed up). > > He concludes: > > > [@](#): > > > > In sum, the Presidential use of screw up, in conjunction with frequent newspaper quotation of the term with no concern for its sexual etymology, has legitimized screw up as verb and screwup as noun; this in turn may one day lessen the sting of the slang meaning of the central word without its gentling use of up, but let’s let a generation go by. > > A generation has gone by, and Safire’s comments now seem prescient. And anyway, if Obama uses “screw up” on national TV, then it must be OK! ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/6 "2009-03-07T05:06:17Z")
Is that really enough evidence to conclude that “screwed” means f—d? If ‘screwed’ is to be taken offensively, then why aren’t ‘fouled up’ and ‘gummed up’ equally offensive, if they all supposedly mean the same thing? I understand the meaning of the phrases is all the same, but from an etymology point of view, was the word ‘screwed’ used to replace ‘f–d’ because it actually mean the same thing, or was it a harmless substitution like ‘fouled’? ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/7 "2009-03-07T09:30:38Z")
Well people use “screw” to mean “fuck” all the time. They don’t do that with words like “foul” or “gum”. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/8 "2009-03-07T10:13:34Z")
I’ve seen people use the term SNAFU without any issues. The F in SNAFU does not mean “fouled”. I seem to recall there’s another commonly used acronym that has a “hidden” naughty word, but I can’t remember what it is. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/9 "2009-03-07T10:22:51Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I’ve seen people use the term SNAFU without any issues. The F in SNAFU does not mean “fouled”. > > I seem to recall there’s another commonly used acronym that has a “hidden” naughty word, but I can’t remember what it is. Perhaps FUBAR? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/10 "2009-03-07T10:38:43Z")
That’s the bunny! ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/11 "2009-03-07T20:29:08Z")
I’ve noticed that the phrase “screwed the pooch” has also become a little more common in public. That phrase definitely has sexual connotations. I don’t know if the phrase predates the 1961 flight of Liberty Bell 7, Gus Grissom’s Mercury mission, but I first encountered it in Tom Wolfe’s book “The Right Stuff” in reference to Grissom’s flight. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/12 "2009-03-07T22:20:08Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > The OED? “Screwed up” is obviously a slightly cleaned up version of “fucked up”. That there was an old-timey phrase that meant something different is just a coincidence. Yes, let’s ignore standard research sources in favor of our own ideas on how things should be. :rolleyes: I didn’t copy the entire list of usages, but the OED has a clear list of cites all showing how “screwed up” evolved from meaning of “raising prices” to “making things difficult for someone” to “making a mistake.” As I stated, “screw” meaning “sexual intercourse” came later. People were screwing up before they were screwing. While it’s likely the sexual meaning of “screw” is why the phrase survives, the question was about the origin, not the evolution. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/13 "2009-03-07T22:29:20Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I’ve noticed that the phrase “screwed the pooch” has also become a little more common in public. That phrase definitely has sexual connotations. I don’t know if the phrase predates the 1961 flight of Liberty Bell 7, Gus Grissom’s Mercury mission, but I first encountered it in Tom Wolfe’s book “The Right Stuff” in reference to Grissom’s flight. I tried Wiki for “screwed the pooch,” and it is apparently too offensive to define!! I saw Jack McCoy use the term On L&O, and I was astonished, well surprised as hell, anyway. Don’t recall the context, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/14 "2009-03-07T22:56:03Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > I tried Wiki for “screwed the pooch,” and it is apparently too offensive to define!! > > I saw Jack McCoy use the term On L&O, and I was astonished, well surprised as hell, anyway. Don’t recall the context, unfortunately. Huh. I checked [Wiktionary](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/screw_the_pooch) for “screw the pooch,” and apparently, the origin coincides with my “Right Stuff” recollection. It did originate with the Mercury-Redstone manned flights of the 60’s and it was popularized by Tom Wolfe’s recounting of Gus Grissom’s accident in Liberty Bell 7, when the hatch blew off his capsule and it sank, nearly taking Grissom to the bottom with it. It is, as I supposed, a bastardization of the more vulgar “fucking the dog.” ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/15 "2009-03-07T23:16:27Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Huh. I checked [Wiktionary](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/screw_the_pooch) for “screw the pooch,” and apparently, the origin coincides with my “Right Stuff” recollection. It did originate with the Mercury-Redstone manned flights of the 60’s and it was popularized by Tom Wolfe’s recounting of Gus Grissom’s accident in Liberty Bell 7, when the hatch blew off his capsule and it sank, nearly taking Grissom to the bottom with it. > > It is, as I supposed, a bastardization of the more vulgar “fucking the dog.” Wiktionary more aptly goes on to define it as: BTW McCoy used “screwed the pooch” during a trial. to screw up; to fail in dramatic and ignominious fashion I say this without any vitriol whatever, but “fucking the dog” had absolutely no meaning for me. I first encountered this right here in this thread, and wouldn’t mind not seeing - or hearing - it again. BTW McCoy used “screwed the pooch” during a trial. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/16 "2009-03-08T00:56:53Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > Wiktionary more aptly goes on to define it as: > > BTW McCoy used “screwed the pooch” during a trial. > > to screw up; to fail in dramatic and ignominious fashion > > I say this without any vitriol whatever, but “fucking the dog” had absolutely no meaning for me. I first encountered this right here in this thread, and wouldn’t mind not seeing - or hearing - it again. > BTW McCoy used “screwed the pooch” during a trial. No problem. I was using the term academically. I quoted (more or less accurately) from Wiktionary, Wiktionary just had a few of the letters in the vulgar term replaced by asterisks, but the general meaning is there. It is not a term I casually use, not even in the Pit. I’m not likely to use that term again. By the way, apropos of nothing, my parents absolutely forbade the “F” bomb in the house. I never heard either of them use the word. They weren’t strict, but kept their language clean and expected us kids to follow their example. They were OK with “damn” and “hell,” and my dad occasionally said, “shit.” But that was the strongest word I ever heard either of them use. But it was OK to say “screw up.” They didn’t object to that phrase at all. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/17 "2009-03-08T01:13:24Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I didn’t copy the entire list of usages, but the OED has a clear list of cites all showing how “screwed up” evolved from meaning of “raising prices” to “making things difficult for someone” to “making a mistake.” > > As I stated, “screw” meaning “sexual intercourse” came later. People were screwing up before they were screwing. While it’s likely the sexual meaning of “screw” is why the phrase survives, the question was about the origin, not the evolution. **Chuck** –you’re incorrect here. Usually you’re correct, but not here. _Screw_ to mean sexual intercourse is cited in the OED as early as 1625(which predates your “screw up” meaning of to increase the rent). > [@OED](#): > > 1. coarse slang. a. intr. To copulate, have sexual intercourse (with a person). b. trans. Usu. of a man: to copulate with, have sexual intercourse with (someone). > > 1725 New Canting Dict., To Screw, to copulate with a Woman. 1796 F. GROSE Class. Dict. Vulgar Tongue (ed. 3), To screw, to copulate. The modern meaning of “screwed up” is just as **Manduck** and **Exapno** said–around WWII as a more polite form of “fucked up.” ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/18 "2009-03-08T01:27:50Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I’ve noticed that the phrase “screwed the pooch” has also become a little more common in public. That phrase definitely has sexual connotations. I don’t know if the phrase predates the 1961 flight of Liberty Bell 7, Gus Grissom’s Mercury mission, but I first encountered it in Tom Wolfe’s book “The Right Stuff” in reference to Grissom’s flight. No use of the phrase in print has ever been found before _The Right Stuff_. It is “said” that it was an expression used by test pilots in the 1950s, which would dovetail nicely with the astronauts. As far as “fucked the dog,” that expression appears first in the teens and was used to describe someone who was goofing off at work, loafing. It perhaps morphed into the “screw the pooch” of the late 1950s-1960s. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/19 "2009-03-08T02:18:35Z")
I’m a little surprised at all this. I just thought “screwed up” meant “twisted up”, “in a mess” etc. No need to relate it to other, figurative connotations of “screw”. ---
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578/20 "2009-03-08T21:21:21Z")
> [@batsto](#): > > thanks…a woman got quite ‘offended’ when she heard me use the word the other day, which struck me as odd. She said that I shouldn’t use such ‘adult language’ around children, which perplexed me, because I had never thought of the two terms as being related before. There was a letter to editor in the Chicago Tribune recently complained that Obama has used the phrase “screwed up” to describe his handling of Daschle’s appointment. The letter writer said the phrase “degraded” the language, but none of the newspapers or broadcasts gave it any thought. It’s all a mystery to me anyway, since the context of these words does not refer to intercourse whereas “intercourse” does and that’s perfectly OK to say. “Daddy, what does ‘screwed up’ mean?” “It means to make a mistake.” “Oh. What does ‘intercourse’ mean?” “Umm…” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-know-the-origin-of-the-phrase-screwed-up/488578.md?page=2)