# Anyone seriously considering leaving the U.S. if McCain wins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620 "2008-09-08T15:49:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/121 "2008-09-09T23:07:41Z")
> [@UnwrittenNocturne](#): > > This is the bully in the schoolyard. Stealing someone else’s lunch money is in your interest therefore you have a right to do so. How’s 'bout giving me a reply that actually has something to do with what I said? I merely point out the hypocrisy of Europeans who benefit greatly and disproportionately from their military alliance with the United States but nevertheless presume to look down their noses at us because of our “militarism.” ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/122 "2008-09-10T08:45:30Z")
I am American - I was born there, I lived there for many years, I served in the Military to protect her. And the cultural shift in the US, on both sides, disgusts me and that is what’s keeping me away, not some poxy election between an empty suit with a side of ‘more of the same’ and a political whore with a side of religious intolerance and corruption. There is no tolerance in American voices on either side of the debate and neither side is trying to actually represent the people - they both have partisan axes to grind. The culture of America is now based on fear. Fear of not getting laid or of someone else having sex in a ‘bad’ way, fear of your house getting repossessed, fear of the brown skinned illegals stealing your job, fear of the nasty A-rabs blowing up your house, fear of the Russians actually trying to decide their own destiny without interference, pandering to the fear of a world power in China, fear that you won’t be able to travel the world and tell other countries how shit they are and how much they should be like America, fear that someone else is making more money than you. This fear is reflected in tolerance for the police state that America has become, which instead of making Americans safer just makes them more afraid. It’s ludicrous. It’s disgusting. It’s embarrassing. It’s sad. America used to do things, and stand for things. America used to be a discussion, where all voices had a place. America used to not be so fucking afraid of everything and everyone. And in America, religion used to be a private choice, not a dictat from nutjobs who seem to control the political debate. Thanks but no thanks. I’d rather live in a country that, in spite of it’s own problems, is a hell of a lot more like what I’d like to call home. And one that actually understands it’s part of the world, and a rather small part at that, not the whole fucking thing. And one that actually tries to learn from historical mistakes rather than simply ignoring them and carrying on. One that teaches tolerance, education and understanding as fundamental rather than embracing hatred and ignorance as core values. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/123 "2008-09-10T08:53:03Z")
MCCain winning will have a lot of influence on whether I choose to retire from the military or not next spring. I’m already considering it, but John “another 100 years” McCain in the oval office will probably make the decision to go easier if I choose to do so. It will also have a big impact on whether I stay in the US. I already have the credentials to work in a NATO environment, even as a civilian. I’d probably search for openings in Europe rather than go back to the US. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/124 "2008-09-10T11:24:11Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Usually, I follow elections fairly closely but also disinterestedly. However, this time, my passions have been aroused and I’ve made it really personal: I desperately want Obama to win. The reasons are numerous, but I think ultimately it comes down to something Obama himself said in his New Hampshire primary speech: **"This time must be different**." Usually I’m a right-leaning liberal, but something about Obama inspires me so much. While I honestly don’t agree that much with many of his policies, I think the fact that he is so inspirational is really important. The POTUS is the head of state and is the public face of his nation, and he makes me care again. I think his brilliant rhetoric ability and his capacity to make people stand up and do something is priceless. I am also 24, and the United States is in the worst state that I can ever remember. Not only have we lost any moral authority globally, many of our policies have us losing our last great standing: economic strength. > > For that reason, reading this article this morning almost left me in tears: [BBC NEWS | Americas | White House race enters high gear](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7604333.stm). > > What upsets me the most about the article is that the reason McCain is doing so well is Sarah freakin’ Palin. If he wins because of her, that means that the Christian Right has truly won in this country, cause that is what this woman brings to the ticket. McCain would have won because he elected a down home gal who > > 1. Is for teaching creationism in public schools > 2. Is for abstinence-only education > 3. Tried to have books banned from her local library based on language > 4. If she had her druthers, would not allow any form of abortion for any reason besides health of the mother. > > She also has some other policy stances, like being pro-drilling in ANWR. While I disagree with that, it doesn’t bother me as much as her other, religiously-based stances. > > Anyways, ultimately, I find Palin a very distasteful figure, for all the reasons that everyone else has listed on this board many times. If McCain wins, it will be because America loves this woman whose politics and reputed strong-arm tactics I despise. > America would have actually voted for HER over the most inspiring, personally interesting candidate on the left that we have had in a long time. > > So ultimately, I think that if McCain takes this elections, the political tide and character of America would have changed to the point where the religious right rules everything. For that reason, I would find myself at odds with the nation’s current values and seriously consider leaving. > > Anyone else with me? > > Gestalt I wouldn’t want to live anywhere except the USA. I think we may be headed for a depression if our economy isn’t picked up. Our war debt will hold us down for a long time. I lived through the last depression, it was hard, but Roosevelt got people working,although their salaries were not high it was better than selling apples in New York.Men like my father worked on fixing roads etc. My brothers who were old enough went to 3 C camps. It is a possibility that the Fundies may try to force their religious beliefs on us but the people of Russia still believed in their religion even if they couldn’t practice it as they would have wished. I remember watching a Russian athelete Making the sign of the cross before a performance. If McCain gets in then I believe Obama could win the next one by a landlside. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/125 "2008-09-12T03:58:32Z")
I wouldn’t leave **because** McCain was elected, but it might make me more likely to leave. I have British citizenship by birth, although I’ve never claimed it. I have a lot of family over there, and I’d love to spend time there just for the experience. I don’t think Europe or Britain is _better_ than the US, they just have different problems and issues, but I do think in some ways I’m closer to Europe (and Britain specifically) in terms of my culture, personality, and ideals. And even though I have a job now with really, really good benefits, I fear what will happen with my insurance if I change jobs. I fear it a LOT. I even fear what I’ll have to pay out of pocket if existing health problems flare up, despite my very good insurance. I looked the other day on-line, and discovered that if I get the training and certification that I hope to get through my job over the next few years anyway, the qualifications (to be an addictions counselor) will be recognized by the equivalent certifying agency in the UK. So in a few years I will be able to have a career over there. If Obama wins, I might just get so optimistic and excited about politics here that I don’t want to leave, but want to get even more involved than I am now. (Maybe run for local office.) If McCain wins, I’m going to feel disaffected. It might just motivate me to make a move I’ve always thought about doing someday anyway. Plus, if I live in the UK, I’ll be able to watch **Doctor Who** when it’s broadcast! Legally! ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/126 "2008-09-12T07:35:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Pretty much the _definition_ of “unpatriotic”. So all those Iranians who left during 1979 are unpatriotic too… or are they just doing what makes the most sense? The Afghans that managed to get out as the Taliban came to power… should they have stayed to fight for the Taliban? I don’t understand why anyone should blindly support the country they happened to be born in if they do not agree with its actions. And leaving is certainly one option. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/127 "2008-09-12T07:44:42Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Therefore, by that point, it shouldn’t even matter who’s president, which party is in control, who’s Miss America, etc. > > Still, it’s safer in the inside than on the outside. I am far safer from terrorism, murder, assault, robbery and numerous other problems here than in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/128 "2008-09-12T08:16:53Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If anyone is so sensitive that McCain (or Bush) would cause them to consider leaving the country then their world outlook should be such that they’re also horrified at the entire system. Therefore, by that point, it shouldn’t even matter who’s president, which party is in control, who’s Miss America, etc. Yeah, the whole system’s a bummer and I agree that it doesn’t matter _now_ which Washington insider takes the helm at this point, to be directed by the same set of puppetmasters. It might’ve turned out that he was leading me down the garden path, but still Obama gave me just the faintest inkling that things could have been different this time. If that glimmer gets stomped into the ground, then it’s kind of confirmation to me that it’s just as well to stay away for the next 4-8 years. > [@](#): > > Still, it’s safer in the inside than on the outside. I’d like to echo **DesertNomad** to ask: what makes you think so? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/129 "2008-09-12T09:11:00Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > I am far safer from terrorism, murder, assault, robbery and numerous other problems here than in the US. Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/130 "2008-09-12T14:57:59Z")
My family moved away from New Zealand to Australia for a variety of reasons- mostly economic, but also political in the sense that NZ was drifting too far left for our liking. Now, on that Political Compass thing that gets linked to periodically around here, I’m apparently even further to the Left than Gandhi (which I still wonder about, given my genuine belief that Colonialism and Imperialism were and are good things for the most part, along with my very Pro-Gun beliefs) so how can I want to leave a country for being too Lefty? Because New Zealand was becoming very “Touchy-Feely”, with lots of apologising to “wronged” Native Peoples for things that happened 160 years ago, and various things that could best be described as “Tree Huggery”. We have better jobs and standards of living and lifestyles here in Australia than we could ever hope to have in New Zealand. I haven’t seen snow in nearly a decade and that makes me very happy, for starters. 🙂 The irony is that even though NZ is now (IMHO) a Touchy-Feely Tree Hugging Lefty Paradise, it also has some of the most liberal gun laws in the world- you can basically own whatever you like (within reason) once you’ve got a gun licence for the type of gun (Longarms, Pistols, Collectors) you want, as long as you don’t wave it around in public or shoot people. Even here, after 10 years of _El Jefe_ Howard (who was rabidly anti-gun), we’ve just elected a pro-gun PM (Kevin Rudd, in case you weren’t paying attention, which most of you probably weren’t). But I still can’t own an L1A1 SLR or a pump-action shotgun on my firearms licence. In fact, I’ve noticed pretty much zero difference between the Howard and Rudd Governments in my day-to-day life. The long-winded point I’m making here is that just because McCain might win the US Election doesn’t immediately mean that you’ll all be subject to the [del]Spanish[/del] American Inquisition, or that Gay people will be shipped off to [del]Concentration Camps[/del] Re-Education Centres, or that the schools will start teaching your kids that A Wizard™ created the universe. Similarly, if Obama wins, that doesn’t automatically mean it’ll be kittens and puppies and rainbows all around. I suspect it will be a case of “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss” for several years as various political clusterfucks are de-fragmented and something approaching normality is restored (Any anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem. ;)) Threatening to leave because “Your Guy” didn’t win seems silly. At best, you’ve only got to put up with him for 4 years, which really isn’t that long. Worst case scenario, you’ve got 8 years of the other guy, so he’ll eventually have to stop being _El Presidente_ and someone else will get a turn. I mean, if things get _really_ bad- I’m talking Tinfoil Hat Survivalist Wet Dream bad- you’ll get a bunch of states trying to secede again, in which case THEN would be an appropriate time to buy a fur hat or _guayabera_ and make travel arrangements to begin a new life in [del]the off-world colonies[/del] somewhere not descending into Civil War II: Civil War Harder… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/131 "2008-09-12T17:33:30Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > I don’t understand why anyone should blindly support the country they happened to be born in if they do not agree with its actions. And leaving is certainly one option. Giving up your free time or even your career (as was suggested) to fight for change, to bring your country back the way it should be- is NOT “blindly support the country they happened to be born in if they do not agree with its actions”. I say that leaving is the cowards way out, staying and fighting for change is the right way. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/132 "2008-09-12T17:34:31Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > I am far safer from terrorism, murder, assault, robbery and numerous other problems here than in the US. Really? Where is “here”? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/133 "2008-09-12T17:46:55Z")
The thing about a McCain victory is that I see myself working **against** stuff for the next four years rather than **for** stuff. Over the past 7+ years I’ve written lots more letters to my congresspeople trying to keep bad stuff from happening than supporting good stuff. For “stuff”, substitute wrongheaded notions on gay marriage, immigration, creationism in schools, bankruptcy reform, etc. etc. I only have so much time, money, and energy. I’d rather spend it on positives than negatives. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620/134 "2008-09-12T17:47:11Z")
I won’t leave… I’ll remain a member of the Loyal Opposition. And if/when it becomes time, the Resistance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-seriously-considering-leaving-the-u-s-if-mccain-wins/462620.md?page=6)