# Anyone still believe the Tea Party is not a social conservative/RR organization? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495 "2014-02-28T06:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/1 "2014-02-28T06:36:53Z")
There has been a long-running controversy, in the Dope and more broadly, as to whether the Tea Party is mainly an economic-libertarian, small government organization, or a social conservative/religious-right organization. And one notes that RR messages as such rarely appear on their rally-signs or in their literature. (Neither does anything about immigration, IME.) However, WRT Arizona Gov. Janet Brewer’s recent veto of the “religious freedom” bill, while the matter certainly touches on economic libertarianism, [this](http://www.salon.com/2014/02/27/tea_party_leader_attacks_jan_brewer_for_allowing_%e2%80%9cslavery%e2%80%9d_and_penis_cakes/) is not the reaction of a secular economic libertarian. > [@](#): > > In a lengthy rant posted on Tea Party Nation’s website on Thursday morning, Phillips accused Brewer of buckling under pressure from “the left and the homosexual lobby” and condemning Arizona to a dystopian future in which LGBT people force God-fearing Arizona cake makers to provide them with penis-themed sweets. > > Describing the vetoing of SB 1062 as “tyranny on the march,” Phillips writes that opponents of SB 1062 want to enslave its supporters. > > “The left and the homosexual lobby are both pushing slavery using the Orwellian concepts of ‘tolerance’ and ‘inclusiveness,’” he warns. He then levels one of the most damning criticisms possible in Republican circles, saying Brewer “proved she was no Ronald Reagan.” > > Claiming that he was merely copying the left’s “absurd hypotheticals,” which it uses in order “to scream that there must be compliance with their fascism,” Phillips also warned that, without SB 1062, Arizona would soon become a place overrun by the evil of penis cakes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/2 "2014-02-28T06:46:49Z")
:eek: Not penis cakes! Please think of the children! And of their penises! A lot! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/3 "2014-02-28T14:28:19Z")
The “Tea Party Nation” is a for-profit group that is part of, but not all of the Tea Party Movement. Why are you using them as a proxy for the entire, loosely organized, Tea Party Movement? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/4 "2014-02-28T14:49:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The “Tea Party Nation” is a for-profit group that is part of, but not all of the Tea Party Movement. Why are you using them as a proxy for the entire, loosely organized, Tea Party Movement? Did that rhet tac work for the Occupy movement ? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/5 "2014-02-28T15:02:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The “Tea Party Nation” is a for-profit group that is part of, but not all of the Tea Party Movement. Why are you using them as a proxy for the entire, loosely organized, Tea Party Movement? You know a better proxy? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/6 "2014-02-28T15:06:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You know a better proxy? No. That doesn’t make your proxy good. You’ve been trying to prove this for years, and it might every well be true. But you haven’t proven it. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/7 "2014-02-28T15:38:16Z")
Maybe it’s not the primary focus, but they sure do love abortion restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/8 "2014-02-28T16:37:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. That doesn’t make your proxy good. You’ve been trying to prove this for years, and it might every well be true. But you haven’t proven it. What would prove it? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/9 "2014-02-28T16:49:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What would prove it? As a follow-up question: is there any branch, group, wing or representative of the tea party that has not proven it/him/her self to be anything but a regressive on social or economic issues? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/10 "2014-02-28T17:50:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > As a follow-up question: is there any branch, group, wing or representative of the tea party that has not proven it/him/her self to be anything but a regressive on social or economic issues? Well, their regressive stance on **economic** issues is no secret at all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/11 "2014-02-28T17:59:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > As a follow-up question: is there any branch, group, wing or representative of the tea party that has not proven it/him/her self to be anything but a regressive on social or economic issues? Welcome to the stall game of “That’s Not It!”, in which any and every example get’s the response “That’s not it”, but the question, “Well, which one is, then?” is never answered. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/12 "2014-02-28T18:05:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, their regressive stance on **economic** issues is no secret at all. I think we’re in agreement but **John Mace** appears to claim that we cannot be sure who represents the Tea Party. Fair enough. So will the real Tea Party Proxy please stand up? ETA: what Czarcasm said. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/13 "2014-02-28T18:05:48Z")
The Tea Party started as a secular, libertarian movement. The abomination it has become due to the Republicans hijacking it and making it about social issues, cannot be said to represent all Tea Partiers. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/14 "2014-02-28T18:08:28Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > The Tea Party started as a secular, libertarian movement. > > The abomination it has become due to the Republicans hijacking it and making it about social issues, cannot be said to represent all Tea Partiers. Yeah, we got that already. Could you point us in the right direction? A site, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/15 "2014-02-28T18:50:20Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > The Tea Party started as a secular, libertarian movement. > > The abomination it has become due to the Republicans hijacking it and making it about social issues, cannot be said to represent all Tea Partiers. So? Is there any True Tea Party remnant remaining? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/16 "2014-02-28T18:56:24Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > The Tea Party started as a secular, libertarian movement. A “movement”? If you say so. [Evidence is](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#History)that it was founded by the Koch brothers, with an assist from their propaganda arm, Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/17 "2014-02-28T19:08:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A “movement”? If you say so. [Evidence is](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#History)that it was founded by the Koch brothers, with an assist from their propaganda arm, Fox News. See also [here](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tea_party_movement). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/18 "2014-02-28T19:10:16Z")
The TP is, perhaps, more than one thing – one other thing it is, is [a movement of “local notables”](http://www.salon.com/2013/10/22/tea_party_is_an_anti_populist_elite_tool_and_it_has_progressives_fooled/) – anti-elitist only in the sense that the billionaires on Wall Street are an elite compared with the millionaires on Main Street, but plenty elitist in its own right; what the latter want is the autonomy to dominate local economies and exploit local workers, etc., without any do-gooding federal interference. But, that dovetails well enough with the social conservatism, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/19 "2014-02-28T23:42:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Welcome to the stall game of “That’s Not It!”, in which any and every example get’s the response “That’s not it”, but the question, “Well, which one is, then?” is never answered. Actually, it is answered when people note that it is a loose umbrella name for a whole range of groups and beliefs, many of them contradictory. Refusing to identify a non-existent exemplar is not a stall game. A good analogy, actually, is atheism. We frequently encounter various posters demanding to know what “atheists believe” who are never satisfied by the actual answer. There are probably one or two ideas that are common to all Tea Partiers–lower taxes is the only one that I recognize as common to all–but there have been Tea Party groups who were clearly opposed to President Obama because of race while other Tea Party groups could not care less, simply opposing his economic policies. (The first Tea Party groups were formed from among groups who had spoken out against President G W Bush for his financial recklessness and who had already formed their views before Obama and Clinton were duking it out in the primaries.) There are Tea Party groups who were recruited from the dissatisfied Religious Right and who bring with them all the concerns and prejudices of that group, but there are other Tea Party groups with no religious affiliations who are concerned only with financial issues. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495/20 "2014-02-28T23:44:04Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, it is answered when people note that it is a loose umbrella name for a whole range of groups and beliefs, many of them contradictory. > > Refusing to identify a non-existent exemplar is not a stall game. > A good analogy, actually, is atheism. We frequently encounter various posters demanding to know what “atheists believe” who are never satisfied by the actual answer. There are probably one or two ideas that are common to all Tea Partiers–lower taxes is the only one that I recognize as common to all–but there have been Tea Party groups who were clearly opposed to President Obama because of race while other Tea Party groups could not care less, simply opposing his economic policies. (The first Tea Party groups were formed from among groups who had spoken out against President G W Bush for his financial recklessness and who had already formed their views before Obama and Clinton were duking it out in the primaries.) There are Tea Party groups who were recruited from the dissatisfied Religious Right and who bring with them all the concerns and prejudices of that group, but there are other Tea Party groups with no religious affiliations who are concerned only with financial issues. But, when it comes time to contest primaries or form a caucus in Congress, all Tea Partiers do at least pretend to speak with one voice, as if the TP were just one thing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-still-believe-the-tea-party-is-not-a-social-conservative-rr-organization/682495.md?page=2)