# Anyone test whales to see how intelligent they are? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339 "2006-08-11T19:43:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BluePitbull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BluePitbull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePitbull)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/1 "2006-08-11T19:43:11Z")
One arguement for not hunting whales, besides being an endangered species, is that they are considered intelligent beings. I am not talking about the dolphins or killer whales but the blue, sperm, minke and humpback. Any anecdotes? Also, are pigs more intelligent than dogs? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/2 "2006-08-11T20:22:37Z")
> [@BluePitbull](#): > > Also, are pigs more intelligent than dogs? I bet you have a stake in this. Pigs are smart and they can learn tricks much like dogs. However, there is no standard to say any species is “more intelligent” than any other one. It is a little like saying something is “more highly evolved”. Dolphins and bats would kick our asses at the echo-sounding challenges but would suck at reading comprehension. That isn’t a cop-out. There just isn’t any good way to measure it. You could set up some challenges that both of them could complete but even that would be arbitrary by selection. ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/3 "2006-08-11T20:25:41Z")
Show them the current lineup of prime-time TV shows and see which ones they like? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/4 "2006-08-11T20:28:04Z")
Given the logistic difficulty with testing whales for intelligence, it does seem to make sense to use dolphins as a proxy. A dolphin is just a small whale, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/5 "2006-08-11T23:13:32Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > Show them the current lineup of prime-time TV shows and see which ones they like? PETA would be all over you if you tortured them like that. ---
**Author:** ![kilgoretrout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kilgoretrout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kilgoretrout)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/6 "2006-08-11T23:23:56Z")
Sure whales are smart, just read Cachalot by Alan Dean Foster! ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/7 "2006-08-11T23:50:10Z")
To quote a world reknowned and highly respected conservation zoologist [(PDF link)](http://www.conference.science.org.au/papers/TimFlanneryQE9.pdf). > [@](#): > > What people fail to realise is that the Cetacea (the group to which whales and dolphins belong) is anextraordinarily diverse order of mammals. It includes relatively large-brained hunters like dolphins and killer whales (which have the demonstrable intelligence of land-based hunters such as dogs) and tiny-brained filter feeders such as the blue whale. These leviathans are aquatic vacuum-cleaners, whose need for intellectual power is slight indeed. Dolphins and killer whales have never been part of the commercial harvest. It’s the small-brained (relative to body-size) filter feeders that are hunted by the Norwegians and Japanese. If these animals are closer in intelligence to the sheep than the dog, is it morally wrong to eat them if they can beharvested sustainably? My view is that at present the anti-whaling lobby is frustrating the attempt to developa sustainable industry based on these creatures, and is therefore frustrating good management of marine resources. “Whales” is a big group. It is a lot like asking whether “rodents” are smart. You are trying to compare capybaras and squirrels, which is totally meaningless. In actual fact it is even more extreme than that. At least all rodents are to some extent foragers and need similar intelligence. In contrast larger whales are essentially just cows. They open their mouths and food falls in. That is about as complex as the thought processes of such whales needs to be. Added to that many species have to go without eating _at all_ for more than 6 months a year. In these species active intelligence would be a serious survival disadvantage since large brains require constant energy. The smaller whales however are active predators and often co-operative hunters of other mammals. They need intelligence to outwit their prey and they need intelligence to manage their social interactions. These are animals we would expect to be intelligent. And that’s exactly what we do see. The baleen whales like humpbacks and minkes are no more intelligent than cattle and quite likely much less intelligent. The smaller whales and dolphins are about as intelligent as dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/8 "2006-08-11T23:51:25Z")
[Here](http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/whalethanks.asp) is a great anecdote that seems to argue for some type of intelligense. > [@](#): > > Newspaper article describes an ensnared whale who seemingly thanked her rescuers. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/9 "2006-08-11T23:59:06Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > Given the logistic difficulty with testing whales for intelligence, it does seem to make sense to use dolphins as a proxy. A dolphin is just a small whale, after all. Only in the same sense that a dog is a small rhinoceros. Intelligence is dictated by need which is in turn dictated by evolutionary niche. Small, social, highly active, co-operative mammal-hunting species that feed continuously and have numerous predators are inno way comparable to large, slow-moving, solitary “grazing” animals with no adult predators and an enforced starvation for half of every year. One has every possible need for inteligence and an ability to cope with the energetic requirements of that intelligence. The other has no need for any greater intelligence than that required to seea krill swarm and a serious constraint on energy usage. Toothed and baleen whales may share a common ancetsor but they have taken very different evolutionary paths since that time. Dolphins make a lousy proxy for baleen whales when discussing intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-test-whales-to-see-how-intelligent-they-are/368339/10 "2006-08-12T00:09:20Z")
> [@BluePitbull](#): > > Anyone test whales to see how intelligent they are? [John C. Lilly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly) probably did at some point in his career.