# Anyone wanna concede their most elite special forces are not the best in the world in some respect? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 30, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279 "2012-10-30T00:59:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/41 "2013-10-11T14:50:15Z")
Yeah, with the majority of recruits already being RM Commandos, with one of the world’s longest infantry selection and training courses. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/42 "2013-10-11T14:59:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You revived a thread that is about a year old-the people you are talking to have moved on to other topics and probably aren’t following this thread. Not only that, but the guy who started the thread was banned some time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/43 "2013-10-11T16:20:26Z")
I’m from the U.S. and as a sane, thinking individual, I am fully prepare to concede that our special forces of whatever type MIGHT not be the best in the world, but with the caveat that I have absolutely no ability to judge this, so they might also be the best. But I don’t have so much national pride that I’m willing to say “Of course they’re the best!” about something that I know essentially nothing about. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/44 "2013-10-11T16:52:59Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Imho, all us special forces are too equipment based. Take away their toys and a low level mma, sambo, or Jiu jitsu practitioner could probably take them out. Is this a whoosh? I would be very interested in seeing the outcome of a fight between a low level karate guy and a member of the Seals, SAS, Delta Force, or what have you. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/45 "2013-10-11T17:31:09Z")
A few months ago, I read [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/magazine/sleep-away-camp-for-postmodern-cowboys.html) about the [Warrior Competition](http://www.warriorcompetition.com/Warrior_Competition/Welcome.html). described in the article as the “Olympics of counter-terrorism”, basically a competition of special force teams from various countries. The fifth competition described in the article included 32 teams from 17 countries and the Palestinian Territories. The Chinese team won the overall competition, although the article notes that the US sends regular infantry and not special forces soldiers, because it doesn’t want others to know what it can do. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/46 "2013-10-11T17:50:17Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Imho, all us special forces are too equipment based. Take away their toys and a low level mma, sambo, or Jiu jitsu practitioner could probably take them out. How about \*you \*try to take their weapons away. See how that works out for you. Seriously: it’s an asinine comparison. They’re soldiers. Soldiers fight with weapons. Saying that they’re not great martial artists is like saying that Dale Earnhardt Jr. isn’t a fast runner. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/47 "2013-10-11T18:08:06Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > Is this a whoosh? I would be very interested in seeing the outcome of a fight between a low level karate guy and a member of the Seals, SAS, Delta Force, or what have you. I’m thinking of that scene from Indiana Jones with the guy with the whirling sword moves. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/48 "2013-10-11T19:07:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How about \*you \*try to take their weapons away. See how that works out for you. > > Seriously: it’s an asinine comparison. They’re soldiers. Soldiers fight with weapons. Saying that they’re not great martial artists is like saying that Dale Earnhardt Jr. isn’t a fast runner. Even so, apart from the weapons training, it’s part of these guys jobs to be fast, strong, and in really, really good shape. I have a feeling that if they went up against the specified low level jiu jitsu artist, it would be comical. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/49 "2013-10-11T19:12:49Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > You gotta define the mission though, before you can judge. The mission is to “kick fuckin’ ass”! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/50 "2013-10-11T19:47:24Z")
Speaking as a highly patriotic American… Look, we are by far the #1 military power on Earth. Our Army is the strongest anywhere. But I have no doubt that MANY countries have elite units that are every bit as good as our elite units, and maybe even a little better. Our advantage has always been based on having a huge quantity of very good soldiers, rather than having a small quantity of incredibly good soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/51 "2013-10-11T19:49:15Z")
n/a ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/52 "2013-10-11T23:30:11Z")
> [@elli1974](#): > > ASKANCE. What fantasy books have you been reading. Australia is an inconsequential part of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think your deluded if you think Australian special forces have been given any major responsibility. You guys just don’t have the necessary training and experience done by US and UK special ops. You need to be honest with yourself. I’m sure someone like Corporal Ben Roberts-Smith VC, MG would be surprised to hear he lacked the experience or training to undertake deployments of any real responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/53 "2013-10-11T23:55:30Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > Even so, apart from the weapons training, it’s part of these guys jobs to be fast, strong, and in really, really good shape. I have a feeling that if they went up against the specified low level jiu jitsu artist, it would be comical. Soldiers, particularly special forces do not bother with martial arts - or jap slapping as its irreverently called. Instead they learn Close Quarter Combat CQB the objective of which is to incapacitate an enemy as quickly and quietly as possible. CQB is not nice. No politeness or etiquette. Punch in the throat to silence, knife/nail in the ear or eye to the brain. Whatever it takes. A skilled martial artist could fend this off if they saw the soldier coming, but that shouldn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/54 "2013-10-12T09:53:24Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > Is this a whoosh? I would be very interested in seeing the outcome of a fight between a low level karate guy and a member of the Seals, SAS, Delta Force, or what have you. I was very selective in the martial arts I mentioned. Karate is a joke. [Fedor Emelianenko](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko), a sambo practitioner, went undefeated for 10 years and is considered the best MMA artist of all time. The first 3-5 years of UFC was dominated by Jiu Jitsu practitioners. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/55 "2013-10-12T10:05:33Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > I was very selective in the martial arts I mentioned. Karate is a joke. [Fedor Emelianenko](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko), a sambo practitioner, went undefeated for 10 years and is considered the best MMA artist of all time. The first 3-5 years of UFC was dominated by Jiu Jitsu practitioners. That’s all well and good, but I presume nobody shot him the face in any of those bouts. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/56 "2013-10-12T10:42:55Z")
And nobody asked him to march 20 miles into enemy territory, take out a fortified enemy target, and march 20 miles back while evading pursuit. How does the ability to engage in fisticuffs make him tougher than the sonsofbitches who can do that? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/57 "2013-10-12T12:46:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And nobody asked him to march 20 miles into enemy territory, take out a fortified enemy target, and march 20 miles back while evading pursuit. How does the ability to engage in fisticuffs make him tougher than the sonsofbitches who can do that? Well, exactly. Or another mission: get on a helicopter on the deck of a carrier in the South Atlantic, get dropped off in a god-forsaken wilderness, and spend a month or two living rough, surveying enemy positions, and feeding back intel. Mind you, they can do stuff at squadron level too [Operation Barras - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barras), supported by, or supporting, other spearhead units. Note that SAS had people on the ground observing before anyone else got there. They aren’t supermen, but they are very well trained. Sneaky and violent and ruthless is a better combo than some roid rage MMA cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/58 "2013-10-12T14:14:16Z")
I’m not sure, but it seems American elite special forces are like the opposite of angels. Every time you masturbate they get stronger. And since no one in the world masturbates over elite special forces better than Americans masturbate over American special elite forces, American special forces must be the strongest in the world. What with all that masturbating, and such. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/59 "2013-10-14T12:39:33Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > I was very selective in the martial arts I mentioned. Karate is a joke. [Fedor Emelianenko](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko), a sambo practitioner, went undefeated for 10 years and is considered the best MMA artist of all time. The first 3-5 years of UFC was dominated by Jiu Jitsu practitioners. But you also said they were “low level”. I think we have different definitions for that term. I have no doubt that a professional MMA fighter with a decade of ring experience could take on someone in special forces. If your example of Emelianenko is low level, who would be high level? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279/60 "2013-10-14T12:43:02Z")
Our elites kick ass. "Who has got the secret-est Service? The one that makes the other service nervous? Fucking-a man! CIA Man!" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-wanna-concede-their-most-elite-special-forces-are-not-the-best-in-the-world-in-some-respect/639279.md?page=4)