# Anyone watching Netflix's Making a Murderer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 20, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882 "2015-12-20T00:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/121 "2016-01-06T16:00:55Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’ve been involved in a lot of investigations. I couldn’t give less of a fuck if someone is suing the state. More overtime for me. You would if you were personally on the hook for millions of dollars as was the case here. ---
**Author:** ![Anomie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Anomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomie)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/122 "2016-01-06T16:09:07Z")
The scene where MICHAEL O’KELLY extracts a confession from BRENDAN DASSEY… …through that whole interview, I was nodding-along thinking O’Kelly was running an experiment to see just how easily Brendan could be compelled to make a false confession. …likely so he could report back to Len Kachinsky that, yes, Brendan’s confession to police was probably bogus. When i finally cottoned-on that they just wanted the confession to trade for a plea-bargain, I yelled so loud that people came running from all over my house. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/123 "2016-01-06T16:42:22Z")
> [@Anomie](#): > > The scene where MICHAEL O’KELLY extracts a confession from BRENDAN DASSEY… > > …through that whole interview, I was nodding-along thinking O’Kelly was running an experiment to see just how easily Brendan could be compelled to make a false confession. > …likely so he could report back to Len Kachinsky that, yes, Brendan’s confession to police was probably bogus. > > When i finally cottoned-on that they just wanted the confession to trade for a plea-bargain, I yelled so loud that people came running from all over my house. I agree that Kachinsky acted unprofessionally, but wasn’t his strategy proven right in the end? Take the deal and get 15 years. Brendon would be out when he was 31, enough time to have a family instead of when he was 58. I think Kachinsky is a whore to the system, but he knew what would happen and was trying (in the wrong way) to get the best deal. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/124 "2016-01-06T16:43:50Z")
I’m leaning pretty heavily now toward Avery being guilty, but her car, bones, etc. were found off-site days earlier by the police and the police moved the evidence back to Avery’s Salvage to make sure Avery would be completely screwed. To me, this seems the most likely scenario. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/125 "2016-01-06T16:50:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I agree that Kachinsky acted unprofessionally, but wasn’t his strategy proven right in the end? Take the deal and get 15 years. Brendon would be out when he was 31, enough time to have a family instead of when he was 58. I think Kachinsky is a whore to the system, but he knew what would happen and was trying (in the wrong way) to get the best deal. Yes, one should never assert their innocence at trial and risk a longer sentence. After all, the trial is just a formality, once you are charged you’re going to be convicted. What kind of fool would try to defend themselves in court? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/126 "2016-01-06T16:56:04Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I agree that Kachinsky acted unprofessionally, but wasn’t his strategy proven right in the end? Take the deal and get 15 years. Brendon would be out when he was 31, enough time to have a family instead of when he was 58. I think Kachinsky is a whore to the system, but he knew what would happen and was trying (in the wrong way) to get the best deal. Whether or not to make a deal is not his decision to make; the documentary showed that Kachinsky spoke to the press and embarked on this strategy (sending his investigator in to extract the necessary information) without ever talking to his client. The lawyer that replaced Kachinsky had a tough time arguing that the confession was coerced because Kachinksy thoroughly poisoned the well and essentially sabotaged the case from the beginning. We’ll never know how effective that strategy _could_ have been if that lawyer had represented Dassey from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/127 "2016-01-06T17:16:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > However, sadly, the evidence is fairly overwhelming. Even what was presented in the show, never mind the damning stuff they left out. Interesting choice of words there, “damning”. If it was so damning, you’d think it would have been allowed in court, right? But no, that was the word used by Kratz to decribe evidence excluded from the trial about Avery answering the door in a towel, for instance and more hearsay about Halbach being “creeped out” by him. How is this “damning” again? > [@](#): > > Short version: When a pretty young lady that I have been pursing is found burned in the fire pit behind my house, after last being seen alive there, her car is found in my attached junk yard with my blood and sweat in it, a bullet fired from my rifle with her DNA on it is found in my garage, and her car key found in my house…I would be honored to have some of you all on my jury to think I am innocent. I’d love for someone to explain in a way that matches the actual evidence how Avery managed to do all this, and why, without so much as leaving her DNA all over the place, including a reasonable timeline and what happened to all of those objects she must have come into contact with, if you believe Brendan Dassey’s version of what went down. And if Brendan Dassey is not to be believed why the MCSD was so aggressive in using him to establish a theory of what happened? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/128 "2016-01-06T17:56:07Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I’m leaning pretty heavily now toward Avery being guilty, but her car, bones, etc. were found off-site days earlier by the police and the police moved the evidence back to Avery’s Salvage to make sure Avery would be completely screwed. > > To me, this seems the most likely scenario. I could potentially buy this hypothesis. But, again, if I’m on the jury, I vote not guilty even conceding that this is a strong possibility. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/129 "2016-01-06T18:09:35Z")
Wisconsin gov. just said no pardons: story [here](http://news.yahoo.com/wisconsin-governor-no-pardon-making-murderer-case-165618348.html#). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/130 "2016-01-06T18:16:13Z")
I’ve watched three episodes (and didn’t read the thread to avoid “spoilers”) and just started episode 4. In episode 3 we learn that Brendan Dassey is likely innocent but was interrogated (illegally?) and confused into a false confession (e.g. very bloody killing when no blood was found). Now episode 4 starts with the “new defense lawyer” announcing that his client is guilty. :smack: Should I continue this series? It is making me mad. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/131 "2016-01-06T18:41:08Z")
I yelled at the TV several times, and I don’t normally do that sort of thing. Keep watching, but yes, you’ll get mad. ---
**Author:** ![Samantha\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Samantha\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Samantha_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/132 "2016-01-06T18:53:45Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I have to disagree here. The documentary doesn’t go into much detail on this, but there were other Averys living on the same lot. It’s possible that Steven is innocent but that a different Avery living on the property committed the murder. > > Another possibility is that someone else committed the murder, and knew (1) the police didn’t like Avery (fairly obvious to most people in the area, I would think), and (2) that Halbach was recently at Avery’s place (less well known, but if it was someone she was close to, not improbable that they would know her schedule). They could have planted some or all of the evidence, then the police planted some or all of the rest. > > I’m not saying either of those scenarios _is_ what happened, just that they are alternatives to scenarios where the police either commit the murder and / or burn the body. I feel like scenario two is a real possibility, and that Theresa’s roommate had something to do with her murder. Everyone in the town knew about Avery’s lawsuit and how much they all stood to lose. I don’t think he murdered her for the purpose of setting Avery up, but he was a great scapegoat if he wanted to get rid of her. Planting any evidence implicating Avery just to let LE catch the scent, and he would have been completely off the hook. I have not watched last episode three because the way Brendan was treated by everyone including his POS lawyer made me physically ill and too upset. Now that I have calmed down, I am hoping to finish it. I read some comments on a Guardian article about how some members of juries can feel bullied into going along with the others. I know this can be true because of the trial I was a part of. I am horrified by the state of our judicial system and I have been for a while. It seems like once the initial trial is over, the appeals process is more prone to finding reasons why the verdict is valid than caring at all about anything that was inappropriate. It is sickening. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/133 "2016-01-06T18:58:07Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Should I continue this series? It is making me mad. A lot of people are disappointed at the end of the series. That doesn’t mean don’t watch it, just don’t expect anything to wrap up well at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/134 "2016-01-06T21:46:43Z")
Good gravy fuck, if anyone can tell me how Brendan was found guilty of anything, I’d really love to hear it. Only thing I question is why didn’t his defense play THE WHOLE video of the interview when his mom is there at the end hearing from Brendan how they coerced his confession? For Steven, I am processing all of it. Okay, maybe he took a chance with her, decided to jump on her and hurt her, eventually kill her. This man is not smart enough to do a clean up this well, OTOH, what do you learn from 18 years of prison? And OTOH again, is he really that stupid a person to try and commit another violent crime, to which he’s already been easily convicted without proper evidence and are suing the state for, to really try all this? This sheriff’s department had a lot of reasons to hate Steven Avary, they had the ability to plant all of the shoddy evidence, and come up with a story. Stupid question: Has Steven’s DNA been compared to his other relatives? Is it possible that the DNA on the key is another family member? How many points did they test on his blood and non-blood DNA? The state standard or national standard? I only ask this because I may be peering at Scott for doing the rape and if that could just be the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/135 "2016-01-06T23:55:36Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Stupid question: Has Steven’s DNA been compared to his other relatives? Is it possible that the DNA on the key is another family member? That whole key business is the most ridiculous things from the whole series. Nobody found it until days after searching that tiny room in his trailer? The guy who found it just happened to be a Manitowoc cop who happened to find it while he was with a cop from the other district that didn’t know he was supposed to watch him? It “fell” out from that cabinet and landed on the floor half-under a pair of shoes? And it had his DNA on it…but none of _her_ DNA on it? C’mon. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/136 "2016-01-07T00:22:47Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I agree that Kachinsky acted unprofessionally, but wasn’t his strategy proven right in the end? Take the deal and get 15 years. Brendon would be out when he was 31, enough time to have a family instead of when he was 58. I think Kachinsky is a whore to the system, but he knew what would happen and was trying (in the wrong way) to get the best deal. The impression I got was that Kachinsky wasn’t trying to get the plea bargain for Brendan’s sake, but was in collusion with the prosecution, and wanted the plea so Brendan could testify in the Avery trial. Which is pretty serious conflict of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/137 "2016-01-07T03:33:51Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > The impression I got was that Kachinsky wasn’t trying to get the plea bargain for Brendan’s sake, but was in collusion with the prosecution, and wanted the plea so Brendan could testify in the Avery trial. Which is pretty serious conflict of interest. Did anyone notice the length of that weasel’s pants?? Theyre at least four-inch floods! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/138 "2016-01-07T18:10:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes, one should never assert their innocence at trial and risk a longer sentence. After all, the trial is just a formality, once you are charged you’re going to be convicted. What kind of fool would try to defend themselves in court? As I clearly said, what he did was improper, but I see where he was coming from. He was trying to get the best deal that he could, and in hindsight, Brendon should have taken the deal. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/139 "2016-01-07T18:22:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > As I clearly said, what he did was improper, but I see where he was coming from. He was trying to get the best deal that he could, and in hindsight, Brendon should have taken the deal. Why should Brendan have taken that deal? He would have had to perjure himself in order to get it, ruin any chance he had of acquittal on appeal, and there’s no way to know what sentence he would get even if he did cooperate. And then after 15 years he’ll be framed for something else, assuming he ever gets out alive. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882/140 "2016-01-07T18:42:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Why should Brendan have taken that deal? He would have had to perjure himself in order to get it, ruin any chance he had of acquittal on appeal, and there’s no way to know what sentence he would get even if he did cooperate. And then after 15 years he’ll be framed for something else, assuming he ever gets out alive. Yeah, call me crazy, but I think I would also sit in jail and take the sentence rather than admit to a murder that I didn’t commit. Remember, Steven demonstrably did just that for the first charge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-netflixs-making-a-murderer/740882.md?page=8)