# Anyone Watching Texas Rising? It Continues this week. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382 "2015-06-01T20:49:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/1 "2015-06-01T20:49:29Z")
Saw two episodes so far. Learning quite a lot. I had never heard of the [Goliad Massacre.](http://www.history.com/news/the-goliad-massacre-the-other-alamo) It’s even worse than the Alamo because 350 men surrendered and Santa Anna had them executed. At least most of the men at the Alamo died fighting. I had no idea the situation was that desperate. It’s quite amazing the [Texians](http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/who-were-the-texians)weren’t all wiped out. Looking forward to tonight’s episode. It’s about time Sam Houston kicks some ass. 😃 parts one and two can be watched on the History Channel’s site. [http://www.history.com/shows/texas-rising](http://www.history.com/shows/texas-rising) > [@](#): > > We believe that, both by the Mexican and American residents of the country, the name commonly used is Texians.” Texas residents of Mexican descent, many of whom predated their Anglo neighbors, were more accurately known by the Spanish word “Tejano.” > > “Texian” took on a newly patriotic meaning during the war for independence from Mexico, which erupted in late 1835. Though Tejanos and volunteers from the United States and other countries fought alongside the white settlers of Texas against the Mexican troops of General Antonio López de Santa Anna, as a whole they were known as the Texian Army. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/2 "2015-06-01T21:40:39Z")
The errors in geography are pretty egregious. Goliad and Victoria are near the Texas coast and, for the most part, are flat as a board yet they keep showing these sweeping mountain vistas and deep scenic gorges. The acting is so bad that it’s kinda like watching a train wreck. I can’t pull my eyes away from it. Jeremy Davis’ character is pretty funny though. Too bad it’s the exact same character he plays in _Justified_. Santa Anna mispronouncing Spanish place names is pretty jarring at times. The addition of a sexy spy is something I failed to read in my textbooks as a kid. Too bad, I probably would paid more attention at the time. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/3 "2015-06-01T21:44:46Z")
The _Yellow Rose of Texas_ is possibly a tribute to Emily West’s unique contribution to the war. I don’t think historians know for certain. > **[Emily D. West](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_D._West)** > > Emily D. West (c.1815–1891), also known as Emily Morgan, is a folk heroine whose legendary activities during the Texas Revolution have come to be identified with the song "The Yellow Rose of Texas". > West was a free woman of color, of mixed race, or a "high yellow". She was born in New Haven, Connecticut. In 1835 she was contracted to James Morgan in New York to work as an indentured servant for one year in Morgan's Point, Texas, at the New Washington Association's hotel as a housekeeper. Severa... > [@](#): > > After Bollaert’s diary was published in 1956, amateur historians began to expand the tale, with Henderson Shuffler suggesting that West fit the description of the girl in the then-popular folk song “The Yellow Rose of Texas.”[1] The story continued to grow, with many references to West’s beauty, as the legend took hold by the 1986 Texas Sesquicentennial. ---
**Author:** ![stanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@stanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stanger)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/4 "2015-06-01T23:59:06Z")
It is amusing to see the writing at the bottom of the screen during scene changes that tells you where the scene is supposed to take place – and then see the landscape so different from what that part of Texas looks like. All the scenery in the show looks like some part of Texas – just not always the area the scene is supposed to depict. Above enverything, I hope the show conveys that the purpose of the Alamo was not to win the battle and defeat Santa Ana – it was to delay the Mexican army so that Houston would have time to raise his own army. Santa Ana couldn’t afford to leave the Alamo behind or bypass it, due to his long supply lines, so the Alamo had to be neutralized. The brave men there bought thirteen precious days for Houston, They lost the battle, but did what they needed to do. Sure, they hoped to be reinforced and maybe hold out or manage an escape, but there wasn’t the man power for that. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/5 "2015-06-02T04:23:03Z")
Man, that Indian attack on the settler’s cabin was just brutal. Killed the entire family and even the dog. Burned the cabin. Pretty graphic reminder of what early settlers had to deal with. The Indians knew the Texians and Mexicans were busy at war. No one was around to protect the settlers. Leaving them very vulnerable. They’re doing a good job developing interesting characters to move the story along. A lot of it is made up because there isn’t that much known about these people. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/6 "2015-06-02T05:26:13Z")
These events took place so quickly. They probably spent more time filming this mini-series. 😉 Not sure how many episodes are left. There’s still one more next week for sure. Battle of the Alamo (February 23 – March 6, 1836) > **[Battle of the Alamo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Alamo)** > > The Battle of the Alamo (February 23 – March 6, 1836) was a pivotal event and military engagement in the Texas Revolution. Following a 13-day siege, Mexican troops under President General Antonio López de Santa Anna reclaimed the Alamo Mission near San Antonio de Béxar (modern-day San Antonio, Texas, United States), killing most of the occupants. Santa Anna's refusal to take prisoners during the battle inspired many Texians and Tejanos to join the Texian Army. Motivated by a desire for reveng... Battle of San Jacinto April 21, 1836 > **[Battle of San Jacinto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_San_Jacinto)** > > The Battle of San Jacinto (Spanish: Batalla de San Jacinto), fought on April 21, 1836, in present-day La Porte and Pasadena, Texas, was the final and decisive battle of the Texas Revolution. Led by General Samuel Houston, the Texan Army engaged and defeated General Antonio López de Santa Anna's Mexican army in a fight that lasted just 18 minutes. A detailed, first-hand account of the battle was written by General Houston from the headquarters of the Texan Army in San Jacinto on April 25, 183... ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/7 "2015-06-02T09:40:34Z")
Anyone care to discuss the slavery issue? [http://mlktaskforcemi.org/pathways/conflicts-over-slavery-cause-the-texas-revolution-and-lead-to-the-mexican-american-war/](http://mlktaskforcemi.org/pathways/conflicts-over-slavery-cause-the-texas-revolution-and-lead-to-the-mexican-american-war/) ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/8 "2015-06-02T10:35:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Man, that Indian attack on the settler’s cabin was just brutal. Killed the entire family and even the dog. Burned the cabin. Pretty graphic reminder of what early settlers had to deal with. The “early settlers” had to deal with … just to be clear who were the early settlers of the land in question, the conquistadors who arrived around 1519, or the native indians who’s been there for thousands of years before? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/9 "2015-06-02T11:43:37Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > Anyone care to discuss the slavery issue? > > [http://mlktaskforcemi.org/pathways/conflicts-over-slavery-cause-the-texas-revolution-and-lead-to-the-mexican-american-war/](http://mlktaskforcemi.org/pathways/conflicts-over-slavery-cause-the-texas-revolution-and-lead-to-the-mexican-american-war/) I wondered about that myself. I haven’t been able to watch; have they dealt with the issue at all? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/10 "2015-06-02T13:44:14Z")
From link: > [@](#): > > During this period of extremely tense relations between the two governments, Mexico consistently repudiated and forbade the institution of slavery in its territory, while U.S. slave-owners, who were immigrants in the Mexican state of Coahuila y Tejas (Texas), continuously sought ways to circumvent Mexican law.4 > > The abolition of slavery created tensions between the Mexican government and slave-holding immigrants from the United States. These tensions came to a head in the Anahuac Disturbances. The Anahuac Disturbances were uprisings of American immigrants in and around Anahuac in 1832 and 1835 which helped to precipitate the Texas Revolution in 1836. In that year, American immigrants in Texas declared its independence from Mexico that eventually led to the United States invasion of Mexico in 1846. I’m not sure that fits the heroic narrative of the forging of the US. ---
**Author:** ![moldmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@moldmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moldmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/11 "2015-06-02T14:38:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Above enverything, I hope the show conveys that the purpose of the Alamo was not to win the battle and defeat Santa Ana – it was to delay the Mexican army so that Houston would have time to raise his own army. Santa Ana couldn’t afford to leave the Alamo behind or bypass it, due to his long supply lines, so the Alamo had to be neutralized. The brave men there bought thirteen precious days for Houston, Actually they were under orders frrom Houston to destroy the complex and retreat with the guns. They stayed because they couldn’t transport the artillery but really they could have spiked the guns and lived to fight another day. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/12 "2015-06-02T15:37:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Man, that Indian attack on the settler’s cabin was just brutal. Killed the entire family and even the dog. Burned the cabin. Yeah, when you’re forced into a guerrilla war against better-armed and more-numerous invaders, you don’t have the luxury of playing nice. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/13 "2015-06-02T16:12:58Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > The errors in geography are pretty egregious. Goliad and Victoria are near the Texas coast and, for the most part, are flat as a board yet they keep showing these sweeping mountain vistas and deep scenic gorges. > [@stanger](#): > > It is amusing to see the writing at the bottom of the screen during scene changes that tells you where the scene is supposed to take place – and then see the landscape so different from what that part of Texas looks like. It would be interesting to see how they depict the Brazos River crossing Houston used as he moved ahead of Santa Anna toward San Jacinto. [This](https://dumpyourphoto.com/photo/AjXpJ6phPk) (about 100 yards downstream) is the [actual](https://dumpyourphoto.com/photo/arjcfbgsi9) crossing point, a natural limestone outcrop that provides the only high and hard footing for many tens of miles. It’s on a friend’s ranch outside Waller and was a known crossing to Indians well before whites ever came into the area. It’s where [Custer and his men](https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/ccl01) camped (we’ve metal detected buttons, etc) and also close to the lost plantation, [Bernado](http://wiki.bernardoplantation.org/), that’s now an active dig site. Bernardo has been called by some the most important archaeological site in Texas after the Alamo. I tried to watch the show, but the acting… ooof. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/14 "2015-06-02T16:16:48Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Yeah, when you’re forced into a guerrilla war against better-armed and more-numerous invaders, you don’t have the luxury of playing nice. Indeed. If the Native Americans were becoming ruthless by the time of the war for Texas independence, it was largely because they had learned such habits from the Texas settlers, who were merciless in their dealings with the Indians. In 1828, the Mexican government sent one of their most trusted officers, General Manuel De Mier Y Terán, on an investigatory mission to Coahuila y Tejas, in order to see what the situation was like there. There’s a [book](http://utpress.utexas.edu/index.php/books/mietex) that compiles Terán’s observations, using his diary as well as letters that he sent back to the Mexican government. I have some notes and some quotations from the book for my teaching on this subject. > [@](#): > > Whether it is a product of the rational progress of the Comanches or a notion born of instinct, the fact is that they do not wage wars of extermination on other savages. Campaigns involving large numbers of warriors and lasting several months usually have no other consequence than the stealing of a few animals and the death of a single adversary, with no motive for such moderation other than saving their blood and that of the enemy. From this we can infer, in every sense of the word, that only civilized men have such a reputation. The weaker tribes that cause the Comanches no concern are added through alliance. By allowing them to live independently distributed into camps of two or three hundred persons, the Comanches teach them their own martial habits and help to improve their condition. In another part of his diary, Terán notes the prosperous nature of Austin’s colony, and the efficiency with which the settlers deal with Indian raids. He argues that “North Americans understand war with the savages better than do our Mexicans,” noting that they “dealt [the Indians] swift punishment, striking back ten times for every blow they received.” Like a couple of others in this thread, i’d be interested to see how the TV show deals with the issue of slavery. It’s a constant presence in Terán’s letters and diary entries, and he’s very clear that the American settlers in Texas were adamant about retaining their slaves, in defiance of the nation that had invited them to settle within its borders. > [@](#): > > The empresario Austin, who had some resources at his disposal, took the best land that exists anywhere in Tejas. His devotion and industry have made that land very productive. The colony that he has created contains 1,800 individuals. This does not include the slaves, because [the settlers] conceal the number of the latter, but it must be considerable if one notes that a single colonist names Gros keeps 150 blacks to cultivate his suerte [grant] of land. Had he been in the United States instead of Mexico at this time, Jared Groce’s (Terán gives his name a Spanish spelling) 150 slaves would have made him among the most prosperous planters in the whole nation. It’s worth noting that some of the American slaveholders in Texas were also deadbeats. Slaves, like other expensive property, were often financed through loans, and if a borrower fell behind on his payments, the property could be taken by the lender. It was not uncommon for Americans who had borrowed money to purchase slaves, and who could not keep up the payments on the loans, to flee to Texas in order to prevent the repossession of their human property. This practice continued into the period of Texas independence. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/15 "2015-06-02T16:55:19Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If the Native Americans were becoming ruthless by the time of the war for Texas independence, it was largely because they had learned such habits from the Texas settlers, who were merciless in their dealings with the Indians. **mhendo** , have you read Gwynne’s take on the [Comanches](http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/empire-of-the-summer-moon-s-c-gwynne/1100209205?ean=9781416591061) and other tribes? He paints them a little less flatteringly wrt atrocities and the like and goes into great detail about how the development of weapons and the wars of Texas and the US affected the ever shifting frontier. A good read even if it is perhaps a little less scholarly than say Hamalainen and others. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/16 "2015-06-02T17:05:15Z")
Raised in Texas, studied Texas History several times in school–and I’ve read enough since then to get the big picture. _Texas Rising_ sounded pretty bad–but it’s even worse. For me, the emblematic scene came early–when the Alamo survivors were attacked by Karankawas (!) on horseback as they traversed the arid, mountainous terrain between San Antonio & Gonzales. The party including Emily West–but not Joe, Travis’s slave. The show wants us to see the illustrious rise of the Texas Rangers–from their important role in the Revolution through their gallant fight against the savages. (The Indigenes mostly lay low during the the Revolution.) [In The The Handbook of Texas](https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/met04)(far better than Wikipedia), we learn they were founded in November 1835: > [@](#): > > During the Texas Revolution they served sparingly as scouts and couriers, then carried out a number of menial tasks. As settlers fled east to escape advancing Mexican armies after the fall of the Alamo on March 6, 1836, the rangers retrieved cattle, convoyed refugees across muddy trails and swollen streams, and destroyed produce or equipment left behind. In fact, during the battle of San Jacinto on April 21, they were on “escort” duty, much to their chagrin. Nor did their situation improve appreciably over the next two years because President Sam Houston favored government economy as well as friendship with the Indians. Some of the show’s characters became Rangers _after_ the Revolution. Then there’s the matter of [Emily West](https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/xey01). Her “role” in the Revolution is 99% balderdash, but the show has embroidered it immensely. The Handbook of Texas is very hard on the folklorists–who should have known better–who linked her “legend” to the minstrel tune (not a “folk song”) back in the mid 20th century. The show was shot in Durango, Mexico. Parts of Texas look like that but not the parts where the Revolution happened. Rolling prairie, East Texas woods & Coastal prairie–all these areas are far flatter than Dramatic Durango. Then there’s the costuming. The Texians looked more like [this](http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/adp/history/1836/1836_images/zaboly_black2.gif) than Hollywood versions of 1880’s cowboys. (Gary Zaboly illustrated _Texian Illiad_–a straighforward military history of the Revolution.) Sam Houston wore no uniform–because there were no uniforms yet. Some militia from other states wore surplus US Army uniforms–but not the Civil War getups the show gives us. I really ought to watch the whole thing to critique it fully. But it’s just not very good. The writing is all over the place & the veteran actors can’t make much of their parts… ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/17 "2015-06-02T17:25:00Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > For me, the emblematic scene came early–when the Alamo survivors were attacked by Karankawas (!) on horseback as they traversed the arid, mountainous terrain between San Antonio & Gonzales. That’s the point when I hit “Stop”. The Karankawas were a tribe who predominantly lived on the coast between Galveston Bay and Corpus Christi and at their extreme migratory range, possibly 100 miles inland (barely as far as Gonzales). They weren’t on horseback either. The terrain between San Antonio and Gonzales is neither mountainous nor terribly arid. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/18 "2015-06-02T18:59:07Z")
I don’t know the Texas terrain that well and the filming locations don’t bother me. My family is from central Louisiana and parts of East Texas near that border are similar. A Lot of rice is grown. Much different than the arid parts of Texas. We took a car trip through Big Bend and saw Judge Roy Bean’s saloon when I was 12. Mostly I recall endless miles of flat and never changing land. Some of the biggest fire ant mounds are in Texas. Just huge mounds. I am a bit surprised the mini-series hasn’t taken a more critical eye at events. But Santa Anna had arrived with the army and was executing a lot of people. I’m not sure at that point any negotiated settlement was possible. It was a fight or die point in history. Santa Anna wanted the Anglos gone. Speaking of slavery. Did you know [Sam Houston](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Houston) _was removed from office_ as governor of Texas because he refused to recognize the confederacy succession? He was the only governor that refused to support succession. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/19 "2015-06-02T19:21:29Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > **mhendo** , have you read Gwynne’s take on the [Comanches](http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/empire-of-the-summer-moon-s-c-gwynne/1100209205?ean=9781416591061) and other tribes? He paints them a little less flatteringly wrt atrocities and the like and goes into great detail about how the development of weapons and the wars of Texas and the US affected the ever shifting frontier. A good read even if it is perhaps a little less scholarly than say Hamalainen and others. I haven’t read Gwynne’s book, although i’ve read some favorable reviews of it. I’m certainly not interested in ignoring or glossing over the sometimes-brutal actions of the Comanches in the Southwest, or in painting them merely as helpless victims of evil Americans or Spanish or Mexicans. They were incredibly successful for a long time, at least in part, because they were willing to give about as good as they got, and because they recognized how to take advantage of the fluid nature of political and military and cultural relations in the borderlands areas. It seems from this discussion, though, that the TV show in question is not especially interested in offering anything like a nuanced or complex portrayal of the issues involved in the region. It also appears that some viewers might be swallowing the show’s version of history whole, without considering that it’s not the complete story. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382/20 "2015-06-02T19:34:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > But Santa Anna had arrived with the army and was executing a lot of people. Santa Anna was an asshole. He was a self-aggrandizing despot, and in many ways he was opposed to the modern, Enlightenment liberal ideals that helped to write the Mexican constitution and construct the new Mexican nation. But you make it sound like he was invading a foreign country. You understand, i assume, that until the war was over Texas was actually Mexican territory? The Americans there were there precisely because they had been invited to settle by the government of Mexico, which had also placed some particular conditions on their presence. You complain in your OP that Santa Anna executed a bunch of people at Goliad. Try this hypothetical. Say the United States offered residency to a few thousand people from another country. And say that one of the conditions of that residency was that those immigrants would agree to be bound by the laws of the United States. And say those immigrants, over an extended period of time, openly and brazenly refused to obey those laws, and actually began making noises about seizing the land where they were living and breaking away from the United States. And say, when the American government tried to deal with this, the immigrants doubled down and took up arms against the United States, killing American soldiers and civilians. Do you think, under those circumstances, that execution might be a reasonable punishment for those who were caught? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anyone-watching-texas-rising-it-continues-this-week/721382.md?page=2)