# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/201 "2009-07-17T02:54:10Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > News Flash: The society has decided that it will be. I think society’s view on this is wrong. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Deal with it or try to secede from society. Or resist… 🙂 Sometimes I think I’m the only person on the SDMB who truly understands the value of individual freedom & liberty. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/202 "2009-07-17T02:54:30Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Fine. Then the states should be responsible for it; each state should be free to have its own universal health care program. The federal government should have _absolutely nothing_ to do with it. The federal government does not have the authority to be involved in health care in any way. You are about 100 years or so too late for this argument, at least if you believe that the Supreme Court has the power to interpret the Constitution. I agree with you, however, that the U.S. federal government shouldn’t have the authority to offer health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/203 "2009-07-17T02:55:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Am I the only one visualizing **Crafter\_Man** ’s ideal society as the post-apocalyptic wasteland in _The Road Warrior/Mad Max 2_? Dammit, how did you know those are my favorite movies? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/204 "2009-07-17T02:55:40Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I thinking helping poor people is very noble and admirable. And I send money to charities every year. But no one should be _forced_ at gunpoint to help poor people. And that’s exactly what you’re saying; you believe people should be _forced_ to give. I believe that’s morally wrong. Well Jesus H. Christ, make up your goddamned minds. Y’all want all these guns, but what the fuck are all these guns _for_, if not to force people to do stuff? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/205 "2009-07-17T02:56:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Am I the only one visualizing **Crafter\_Man** ’s ideal society as the post-apocalyptic wasteland in _The Road Warrior/Mad Max 2_? Where they actually DO force you at gunpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/206 "2009-07-17T02:56:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Maybe there’s not a problem in the first place. Poor people don’t drive Bugati Veyrons, should the government buy one for each poor person? I think everyone agrees that it’s right and proper that poor people should just “do without” certain things. The difference, and the reason why UHC is polling so well, is that people generally don’t believe that health care should be one of them. There is something viscerally appalling about imagining a person dying of an otherwise treatable disease or condition because of cost and affordability, factors not entirely up to the people involved. That is why hospitals have the systems in place that they do in regards to the uninsured. It’s also why I put that question out towards the libertarians who think the way you do: if you want to sway people over to your side, you have to show them why such a state of affairs as I described in my paragraph above either (a) won’t happen, or (b) is better than the alternative. Personally, I haven’t seen either argued convincingly anywhere. Do you believe you can? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/207 "2009-07-17T02:58:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There’s something seriously defective about anyone who says this with a straight face. You, of all people, shouldn’t say things like this. Wasn’t too long ago that one of your favorite activites would have gotten you classified as mentally ill, all official-like by the best doctors of the day. IOW, just because someone disagrees with you about something doesn’t mean they are mentally defective. Also, I agree with Crafter\_Man on this point, as I made clear upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/208 "2009-07-17T02:59:40Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > It’s socialism. If you desire socialism, why not move to a socialistic country? Why are you trying to change the U.S. into a socialistic hellhole? A socialistic hellhole like Denmark? Or Switzerland, where private health insurance is banned? They’re hellholes, huh? I wonder what rubric you’re using. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/209 "2009-07-17T02:59:44Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Nobody IS being forced at gunpoint to help poor people. As stated earlier, the IRS doesn’t pack heat. And I know “at gunpoint” is a rhetorical flourish, but it is a rhetorical flourish that makes you look like an idiot. Federal entitlement spending is taken from taxes. I pay federal taxes. Want to know what will happen to me if I decide to stop paying these taxes? Eventually JBTs will show up at my door. If I resist, the guns will come out. So it is not an exaggeration to say I am forced at gunpoint to pay for federal entitlement spending. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/210 "2009-07-17T03:00:44Z")
They can’t catch you if you keep moving, Max. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/211 "2009-07-17T03:01:31Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Here, my friends, is the point where RR takes the step from being a mere sociopath into the realm of full-scale psychopathy. He has not only dismissed the needs of those other than himself, but has equated them with the price of a movie ticket. He is no longer some cute, annoying loser. He is now mentally hanging out with serial killers. Christ. You’re a real thinker aren’t you? I disagree with you on political issues, so I’m a psychopath with the mentality of a serial killer. Yeesh. You can say stuff like that but I can’t say a nice simple “go fuck yourself, moron,” which is a stupid rule. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/212 "2009-07-17T03:02:31Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Federal entitlement spending is taken from taxes. I pay federal taxes. Want to know what will happen to me if I decide to stop paying these taxes? Eventually JBTs will show up at my door. If I resist, the guns will come out. So it is not an exaggeration to say I am forced at gunpoint to pay for federal entitlement spending. Well, no, actually. In the finest of libertarian arguments, just as a worker is free to turn down a job in a place that doesn’t pay enough (instead of joining a union and collective bargaining), you’re perfectly free to move somewhere that exhibits your Objectivist philosophy (instead of trying to make sure poor people die of easily treatable conditions). ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/213 "2009-07-17T03:02:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So why in the world do you choose stay in such an unjust system? Surely the free market has brought forth a libertarian paradise somewhere; you are free to choose from hundreds of countries, and you choose this one that so unfairly oppresses you? How is your situation different from the individual who is free to choose any insurance company, or none at all? People **used** to have individual freedom in this country, along with all the risks and responsibilities that went along with it. I am hoping that one day we will once again be a free people. Pipe dream? Perhaps. But I think it’s worth fighting for. Some things are, you know. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/214 "2009-07-17T03:03:47Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Federal entitlement spending is taken from taxes. I pay federal taxes. Want to know what will happen to me if I decide to stop paying these taxes? Eventually JBTs will show up at my door. If I resist, the guns will come out. So it is not an exaggeration to say I am forced at gunpoint to pay for federal entitlement spending. No, you’d actually be at gunpoint for resisting arrest, not for failure to pay taxes. The consequence for failure to pay taxes is prison, not being shot. The consequence for violently resisting arrest might be getting shot, if you take it far enough. If you want to be accurate, say that you’re being forced to pay taxes at prison-point. I know, I know, it’s less dramatic and in-your-face, but you care about being accurate, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/215 "2009-07-17T03:03:50Z")
So stand up for your beliefs, stop paying your taxes, and quitcher whining. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/216 "2009-07-17T03:05:14Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Y’all want all these guns, but what the fuck are all these guns _for_, if not to force people to do stuff? > > :rolleyes: To protect ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/217 "2009-07-17T03:06:46Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Nobody IS being forced at gunpoint to help poor people. As stated earlier, the IRS doesn’t pack heat. And I know “at gunpoint” is a rhetorical flourish, but it is a rhetorical flourish that makes you look like an idiot. What do you think happens if you don’t pay your taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/218 "2009-07-17T03:06:59Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I am hoping that one day we will once again be a free people. Pipe dream? Perhaps.But I think it’s worth fighting for. Some things are, you know. I agree. Universal healthcare is my pipe dream. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/219 "2009-07-17T03:07:23Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > To protect ourselves. From people with guns. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/220 "2009-07-17T03:09:15Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > No, you’d actually be at gunpoint for resisting arrest, not for failure to pay taxes. The consequence for failure to pay taxes is prison, not being shot. The consequence for violently resisting arrest might be getting shot, if you take it far enough. If you want to be accurate, say that you’re being forced to pay taxes at prison-point. I know, I know, it’s less dramatic and in-your-face, but you care about being accurate, don’t you? Prison-point… you are right, that is more accurate. But I would resist. Just as our Founders did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=12)