# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 110
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2181 "2009-08-13T19:19:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Au contraire.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11427586&postcount=2) Stop contradicting my gradeschool science classes, god dammit! ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2182 "2009-08-13T19:30:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > No, you need to not paint entire groups with a broad brush, you stupid beaver. > > How about these ‘general statements’? > > Black people are generally criminals. > > Mexican people are generally lazy. > > Do you not see how those can be offensive? So when you say (or imply) ‘Civil Servants are generally lazy and do low-quality work because their jobs are secure’ you are displaying your ignorance. This is the key post of the entire topic. When you make **Johnny L.A.** annoyed enough to resort to insults, then you’re good for nothing on these boards other than pissing people off. I.T. -Who has never seen **Johnny L.A.** insult anyone here before in his six year history ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/57b2e6/32.png) [@Quasimodal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2183 "2009-08-13T19:35:29Z")
Holy crap, is this challenging the Lord of the Rings thread for most posts? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2184 "2009-08-13T19:45:40Z")
I think the WoW thread is currently the longest. We’re pushing 4k posts there. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2185 "2009-08-13T19:47:25Z")
There’s a topic that was just called “a” that got above 5000 posts (I think). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2186 "2009-08-13T22:23:45Z")
Another 43 posts and this will be the most responded-to thread in the Pit. **curlcoat** can do that herself before supper. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2187 "2009-08-13T22:33:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Another 43 posts and this will be the most responded-to thread in the Pit. **curlcoat** can do that herself before supper. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, **curlcoat** was the reason the last most responded-to thread in the Pit got to be that. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2188 "2009-08-13T22:47:14Z")
She is legion. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2189 "2009-08-14T05:54:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > So when you said ‘Civil jobs are much more secure than private sector jobs, which tends to show in the quality of their work.’ did you intend to imply that civil servants do outstanding quality of work, because their jobs are secure? If that’s what you meant, then I apologise. But I don’t believe that’s what you meant. The clear implication, especially based on your previous posts disparaging other groups, is that civil servants’ jobs are secure; thus, they do not have to perform as well as private sector employees because they do not need to worry as much about being dismissed. Ergo, civil servants’ quality of work is poor compared to private sector workers’ work quality. You clearly implied that civil servants do poor quality work, because they do not have to worry as much about being fired. You are almost right. The thing that you are doing is assuming that I am talking about _all_ civil servants, even when you quoted what I said, which was “tends to” show in the quality of their work. I am well aware that not all civil servants do just enough to get by, but I have also had to sit around the DMV watching them, and stand around the post office and watch them. Can you really say that all civil servants work hard at their jobs? > [@](#): > > And I did not say that civil servants are just as good or better than private sector workers, based solely on my father. Please read for comprehension. I said that your statement that ‘Civil jobs are much more secure than private sector jobs, which tends to show in the quality of their work’ is offensive because you are painting an entire group with a large brush, and gave my father as an example that your statement is untrue. If you go on about your father like that, without any other examples, it appears that you think he is the typical civil servant. > [@cwthree](#): > > So are you going to answer the question, or are you going to backpedal some more? What you quoted is in response to _your_ post - “SSI (not the same as SSDI, but also administered by the Social Security Administration) is paid to, among others, disabled children who never worked a day in their lives. That’s not a pension. That’s insurance (or a handout, or something, but it sure isn’t a pension).” To which I said back in the day when unions were strong (and maybe even now), they paid out to/for disabled children of employees. Even if they no longer do this, they still pay out retirement to their employees after they hit a certain age, just as SS does. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2190 "2009-08-14T06:15:49Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Nuh-uh. As has already been explained to you many times, the money \*\*YOU \*\*payed into Social Security went to the people who were on it at the time. Now that your fat, lazy ass sits in front of the computer at home all day, \*\*MY \*\*taxes, and those of the other people currently paying them, pay for your manicures and toasted-baby sandwiches. Uh, speaking of ignorant - I pay taxes on my SSDI. Not to mention my husband is still paying taxes. Which of course just ignores the fact that if my money went to others, why are you getting your panties in a wad because your money is paying me? It’s OK for me to pay into SS to support other people but when it’s my turn, it’s wrong for me to take my SS? I suppose it makes some sort of sense, since you seem to think that anyone living above the poverty level is supposed to send all of their money to the people you think deserve it. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Your husband has a six-figure income. That makes you much better off than a lot of America. For one thing, that income in Southern California is not as impressive as it would be in Iowa or Alabama. Our everyday costs are higher, and we pay a hell of a lot of taxes. A couple of years ago, when we thought we might have to move to the St Louis area, I found that I could buy a decent sized house on acreage with out buildings for the equity we have in our tract home here. The gas, taxes, and food are cheaper there. Which would have been reflected in my husband’s salary had we moved out there. For another thing, simply because it might be possible that we have a higher income than “a lot of America” doesn’t make us rich. I have a lot of trouble believing that a design engineer is making significantly more money than any other business professional. And, even if we were rich, so what? You want to be able to live reasonably comfortably? Go earn it. Quit expecting others to buy you things. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2191 "2009-08-14T10:37:58Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > What point are you talking about? _Your own cite_ states that the loan was a stopgap measure until legislation could be passed that strengthened the financing and that these loans were paid back \*with interest \*within 4 years. To top it off this happened 26 years ago! What possible bearing does this have on your arguement? Especially when the worse case senario presented in your cite uses the same timeframe that **Dick** is using (i.e. 30 years to insolvancy: 2009 + 30 = 2039). _Your own cite_ puts SS solvancy at a range from 30-75 years and that is if we do nothing to change it financing. > > How is any of this supporting your case of “imminent collapse”? Can you explain your reasoning more fully? I don’t know how much more fully it can be explained than what I have repeated ad infinitum: The SS trust fund is made up of SS deductions–that’s how it’s financing is fed, except in circumstances where it will go immediately broke–and on an individual basis, people do NOT contribute enough $$$ to support the future payment stream SS guarantees. Let’s let that sink in a moment, since nothing else offered changes this basic fact, and people seem determined to ignore it. So the shortfall is made up from current contributions, exacerbating the problem. That’s the essential flaw in this Ponzi scheme. As I stated explicitly in this thread, one can debate when the collapse will occur. One cannot deny, unless you’re Dick and willing to ignore this essential fact, that the system cannot maintain itself. It is a flawed design. No other hand-waving “fact” will change this. To offer SS as an example of government efficiency or solid program design is laughable. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2192 "2009-08-14T13:19:48Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > I’m happy to let our fellow forumers judge for themselves on that one. We have. **Stratocaster** is correct; you are not. There is no such thing as a Social Security trust fund that has been built up. All that money has been spent. It is not a government asset. It’s a government debt, and paying that debt will become impossible in about thirty years. The government borrowed the Social Security money from the taxpayer, and spent it. Some it spent on SS benefits, and the rest it spent on all the other things it spends money on. The government also promised to put the money back, with interest. But without inflating the currency, the only place the government can get the money plus interest is where it borrowed it in the first place - from the taxpayer. You seem to making the same mistake that Al Gore did before he starting spouting hot air about hot air. There is no “lock box” where Social Security funds have been built up - the government took all that money from the taxpayer, spent it, and replaced it with a promise that it will take more money from the taxpayer and spend that too. Tell you what - if you still disagree, we can set up a deal. Send me $1000, and I promise to pay you back $5000 in a year, if you send me $5000 next year. That’s a 500% return on your investment. Pretty sweet deal, no? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2193 "2009-08-14T15:05:34Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Uh, speaking of ignorant - I pay taxes on my SSDI. Not to mention my husband is still paying taxes. Which of course just ignores the fact that if my money went to others, why are you getting your panties in a wad because your money is paying me? You claimed that your SS payments were paying for your current SSDI, which they aren’t. As has been explained to you. Repeatedly and tediously, because you’ve got such a thick layer of fat surrounding every part of your body, including your CNS, that it takes a while to penetrate. Kind of like your husband, when he can get drunk enough to overcome his disgust at your bloated form long enough to close his eyes and picture someone prettier. I have no problem with my taxes going to support other people, seeing as that’s kind of the point of having a society. What I object to is hypocritical, wilfully ignorant wastes of biomass like you, who castigate anyone and everyone who dares to take support that they actually need to survive, while they themselves gobble up money from the government that they could easily do without. > [@](#): > > For one thing, that income in Southern California is not as impressive as it would be in Iowa or Alabama. Our everyday costs are higher, and we pay a hell of a lot of taxes. Waah, waaah, waah. It’s soooooo hard to be you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2194 "2009-08-14T15:08:45Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > …because you’ve got such a thick layer of fat surrounding every part of your body, including your CNS, that it takes a while to penetrate. Kind of like your husband, when he can get drunk enough to overcome his disgust at your bloated form long enough to close his eyes and picture someone prettier. Was that really necessary? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2195 "2009-08-14T15:52:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Was that really necessary? I am of the firm notion that since it’s a troll, that it really doesn’t matter what you say to it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2196 "2009-08-14T16:26:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Was that really necessary? Nope, it was disgustingly gratuitous and rude. **curlcoat** ’s overwhelming willful ignorance just really pisses me off, so I get my little kicks abusing her verbally, which I’m sure she has fun twisting into some sort of martyrdom. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2197 "2009-08-14T18:35:10Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What you quoted is in response to _your_ post - “SSI (not the same as SSDI, but also administered by the Social Security Administration) is paid to, among others, disabled children who never worked a day in their lives. That’s not a pension. That’s insurance (or a handout, or something, but it sure isn’t a pension).” To which I said back in the day when unions were strong (and maybe even now), they paid out to/for disabled children of employees. Even if they no longer do this, they still pay out retirement to their employees after they hit a certain age, just as SS does. You’re still not answering my question. SSI pays out to qualified disabled children regardless of whether or not their parents paid into the system, or if their parents were in the system at all. The private pensions you described pay out to the _children of employees_, not to the children of random strangers. The two systems are in no way alike aside from taking in money and paying out money. > [@curlcoat](#): > > For one thing, that income in Southern California is not as impressive as it would be in Iowa or Alabama. So you live someplace expensive. That doesn’t change the fact that your household income is far and away above average. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2198 "2009-08-14T22:23:26Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > You claimed that your SS payments were paying for your current SSDI, which they aren’t. No, I didn’t, that is simply what you want to believe. As I have said over and over, I paid in money and now I am taking it back. I never said that I think the actual money that was taken from me decades ago is still sitting there waiting for me. I know it’s far easier for you to assume things - like I’m fat, or my husband doesn’t love me, or a slut or whatever else you have said - but I work with facts, not things I want to believe. Nor do I try to “win” by seeing if I can insult someone away… > [@](#): > > Waah, waaah, waah. It’s soooooo hard to be you. And, right on time, we have another assumption. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2199 "2009-08-14T22:52:13Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > You’re still not answering my question. SSI pays out to qualified disabled children regardless of whether or not their parents paid into the system, or if their parents were in the system at all. OK, that part I didn’t know. However, that also doesn’t make it an insurance policy, if the parents never paid into it. > [@](#): > > The two systems are in no way alike aside from taking in money and paying out money. How can you say that? Other than SS being a forced pension, they both take in money and hold (or pretend to hold) it until you reach retirement age. > [@](#): > > So you live someplace expensive. That doesn’t change the fact that your household income is far and away above average. Of course it does - our household income is average (or perhaps now, a bit above average) for this area. If we had moved to St Louis, our income would have been significantly lower. Do you really believe that where you live has no impact on how far your income might stretch? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/2200 "2009-08-14T22:55:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We have. **Stratocaster** is correct; you are not. > > There is no such thing as a Social Security trust fund that has been built up. All that money has been spent. It is not a government asset. It’s a government debt, and paying that debt will become impossible in about thirty years. I hope you are planning a cabin in the woods with lots of supplies, because if that is true not getting a Social Security check will be the least of our worries. > [@](#): > > The government borrowed the Social Security money from the taxpayer, and spent it. Some it spent on SS benefits, and the rest it spent on all the other things it spends money on. The government also promised to put the money back, with interest. But without inflating the currency, the only place the government can get the money plus interest is where it borrowed it in the first place - from the taxpayer. The same place government got the money to pay back the debt that financed World War II. And the Vietnam War. And NSF. And everything else. Tell me, do you have T-bills in your portfolio, and if so, how do you value them? Do you value them at market price, or are you convinced they are worthless? If so, please send me some. I’ll take the risk that they won’t be worth anything in 30 years. I’ll even be a nice guy and pay ten cents on the dollar. This supposedly unsound system has worked fine for 75 years now. Sure there’s no real lock box, just as there is no vault in which your bank keeps your money until you need it. Is that a Ponzi scheme also? What about the forecasts of population and age in 30 years don’t you believe? It’s true that with the conservative (in the non-political sense) assumptions we need to make small changes to retirement age and the income cap to keep the system cash flow positive, but it is nowhere near as bad as the system that Reagan fixed. He set up a commission to look at the problem and make recommendations, which have worked really well. I assume you think he was a socialist also. Actually he was just a rational person who didn’t buy the scare tactics of the economically illiterate. Maybe we should bring back the 2004 debate threads where we kept hearing that investing SS money in the market was surefire, since the market never went down over any 10 year period. Remember that? I’m sure glad the American public recognized what a crock of crap that was. My 401K is just now recovering, but my Social Security is rock solid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=109) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=111)