# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/281 "2009-07-17T04:29:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And yet, _you’re_ the one threatening to murder people for voting in ways you don’t like. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/282 "2009-07-17T04:29:38Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If so, then what does “limited government” mean? What’s with the scare quotes? Are you quoting the Constitution? Cuz, mine says nothing about “limited government”. The amendments are pretty clear about what powers the government does not have. You don’t get to wave about phrases like “limited government” as if it can be used to restrict the power of government beyond those limits defined in the Constitution. Government is not restricted from collecting taxes and determining how those taxes can be spent. If we, through our representatives, want to to collect taxes from you, and spend it on healthcare for the poor (even if they pay no taxes) then by Washington’s Wooden Teeth, that is the will of the people, and you are subject to to it. You have no absolute right to your property. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/283 "2009-07-17T04:33:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Why do you hate the freedom of the American worker? I’m an American worker. What freedoms do I hate? 😕 BTW: taking someone’s property by force, and offering it to another, can never be construed as “freedom.” So any “freedom” you’re talking about cannot entail the theft of someone else’s property. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/284 "2009-07-17T04:35:11Z")
I already posted about Job Lock early in the thread. Well, we now know that in reality Crafter\_Man is against the freedom of the American worker. I happen to disagree because that “freedom” is not free. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/285 "2009-07-17T04:35:45Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > BTW: taking someone’s property by force, and offering it to another, can never be construed as “freedom.” But it is in the Constitution! We can take your property! We can give it to the poor! You get to vote against it if you wish. But the Constitution defines your rights with regard to your property, not some magical Property Pixie. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/286 "2009-07-17T04:36:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, we now know that in reality Crafter\_Man is against the freedom of the American worker. Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/287 "2009-07-17T04:37:30Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > BTW: taking someone’s property by force, and offering it to another, can never be construed as “freedom.” So any “freedom” you’re talking about cannot entail the theft of someone else’s property. Then you wouldn’t be free in your ideal society either. As long as there’s a government, it’s going to be taking some of your property. You’re not taking a principled stand, you’re simply arguing over how much “theft” is acceptable to you. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/288 "2009-07-17T04:39:32Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I have plenty of friends who are poor and uneducated. They are rabidly pro-capitalist and anti-socialist. This bears repeating, I think. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/289 "2009-07-17T04:41:04Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Care to elaborate? I already did, I will have to think then that you are just being obtuse on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/290 "2009-07-17T04:46:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Then you wouldn’t be free in your ideal society either. As long as there’s a government, it’s going to be taking some of your property. You’re not taking a principled stand, you’re simply arguing over how much “theft” is acceptable to you. If you paid attention, you will note that I repeatedly used the term “individual”. I am not against taxation. I have no problem paying federal taxes if they’re used for a something enumerated in Article I Section 8. But even more important, I generally have no problem with being taxed for things that are for public use (e.g. roads). I do not believe the federal government should be using tax income to give money & services to some individuals for their special needs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/291 "2009-07-17T04:58:50Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I am not against taxation. I have no problem paying federal taxes if they’re used for a something enumerated in Article I Section 8. But even more important, I generally have no problem with being taxed for things that are for public use (e.g. roads). I do not believe the federal government should be using tax income to give money & services to some individuals for their special needs. The courts have repeatedly held that federal funding of public healthcare is a use consistent with A1S8 under the general welfare and necessary and proper clauses. In any case, a universal healthcare system would use tax income to give services to all individuals for their “special needs”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/292 "2009-07-17T05:03:43Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I am not against taxation. I have no problem paying federal taxes if they’re used for a something enumerated in Article I Section 8. But even more important, I generally have no problem with being taxed for things that are for public use (e.g. roads). By your reasoning, aren’t those who don’t own vehicles being unfairly taxed to benefit others special needs? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/293 "2009-07-17T05:33:46Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > > I have plenty of friends who are poor and uneducated. They are rabidly pro-capitalist and anti-socialist. > > This bears repeating, I think. Bears repeating? It’s fucking sig-line gold! (Technically was that a self-woosh?) CMC fnord! Plenty of my pro-capitalist / anti-socialist friends are poor and uneducated … not that there’s any connection between those two things. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/294 "2009-07-17T05:41:40Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I would never deny medical treatment for the poor. Unless they’re too poor to afford health care, in which case they can rot, for all you care. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/295 "2009-07-17T05:47:26Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I would never deny medical treatment for the poor. That’s why I earlier brought up the issue of insurance companies routinely dropping customers when their treatments get too expensive, and their habit of refusing new customers with “preexisting conditions.” How do you think the free market would fill that gap? How much say do you think the companies should get in how their customers are treated by doctors? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/296 "2009-07-17T06:15:14Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If I believed I had a right to something material or tangible, it would require me to take ownership of someone else’s property, which is a concept I believe is evil. **Crafter** ’s fucking stealing our _air_. The fucker has admitted he has no right to it, let’s shut it off. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/297 "2009-07-17T06:17:40Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Nobody IS being forced at gunpoint to help poor people. As stated earlier, the IRS doesn’t pack heat. And I know “at gunpoint” is a rhetorical flourish, but it is a rhetorical flourish that makes you look like an idiot. I don’t know where you got that from, but the IRS absolutely packs heat: [QUOTE=IRS Website] CI special agents are duly sworn law enforcement officers who investigate complex financial crimes associated with tax evasion, money laundering, narcotics, organized crime, public corruption, and much more. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=IRS Website] The Sig Sauer Model P228 (Sig 228) 9mm semiautomatic pistol is the standard IRS issue firearm for CI and will be issued to all special agents on a permanent basis. Agents will retain their assigned weapon during their entire career unless the weapon is recalled for repair or replacement. [/QUOTE] Perhaps before you call people idiots you should make sure that it really is “rhetorical flourish”. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/298 "2009-07-17T06:39:13Z")
As one Democrat Senator from the MidWest said, “My constituents don’t like this idea of squeezing the rich. Most of them hope to be rich themselves one day. It’s the American way.” I hope there’s enough conservative Democrats in the Senate to put the brakes on anything too extreme. ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/299 "2009-07-17T06:59:14Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > I don’t know where you got that from, but the IRS absolutely packs heat: > > Perhaps before you call people idiots you should make sure that it really is “rhetorical flourish”. Of course a special agent with arrest powers is going to pack heat, especially when going after drug dealers and such. That’s not the same as your garden variety IRS agent. I think the point that some are trying to make here is that no person has ever been shot or killed for not paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/300 "2009-07-17T07:12:32Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > So what you people are arguing is that if the mob wants something from me, whether it be my property or my life, they get to have it because might is right. Yeah, because the poor people have soooooooo much more might than the rich people do. Fucking idiot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=16)