# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/381 "2009-07-17T20:49:21Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Well I sure don’t see the ABA leading the fight for simplification of tax law. Most of their “tax reform” lobbying over the past 40 years has done little but make tax law even more complicated. Am I right, **Rand**? No, you’re not right. In fact, you’re pretty much a fucking moron. But you’re right, it’s all a big conspiracy to make the tax code complicated so that guys like you have to hire tax lawyers… oh wait, guys like you don’t hire tax lawyers. in fact, it’s pretty much only corporations and really rich people who need tax lawyers. And to them, the lawyer fees are small beans compared to the benefits they get from… can it be? The use their influence to get tax laws passed that are favorable to them? It’s _not_ a big lawyer conspiracy? Well holy shit! Who would have guessed that you’re wrong? Oh yeah. I would. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/382 "2009-07-17T21:11:28Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Well I sure don’t see the ABA leading the fight for simplification of tax law. Most of their “tax reform” lobbying over the past 40 years has done little but make tax law even more complicated. Am I right, **Rand**? No one really wants a simple tax system. They want a fair tax system, and fairness is in the eye of the beholder, and the US has lots of beholders, so the shit gets messy. MHO is that most of the tax simplification talk is really just smoke and mirrors; of those Americans who actually pay. US FIT (which is about half), the vast majority have pretty simple returns (ie, they have a job and sold some stocks and have some interest). So lots of the talk is just agitation to agitate. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/383 "2009-07-17T21:13:03Z")
So you’re saying it’s not a lawyer conspiracy, it’s a _wealthy_ conspiracy. And the wealthy lobby to make the tax laws more complicated so they can pay less. And the wealthy pay the fees for this to…tax lawyers. Yes, quite the distinction. ETA: @ **ivn1188**. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/384 "2009-07-17T21:15:47Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > MHO is that most of the tax simplification talk is really just smoke and mirrors; of those Americans who actually pay. US FIT (which is about half), the vast majority have pretty simple returns (ie, they have a job and sold some stocks and have some interest). So lots of the talk is just agitation to agitate. The fact that filing my taxes is relatively simple doesn’t mean the tax code is relatively simple, or even that my tax burden is relatively simple. Most people file the 1040EZ and take the standard deduction because the difference between their itemized deduction and their standard deduction isn’t big enough to bother - but that doesn’t mean the option isn’t there. It just means you can pay a slight penalty (or not, depending) for the no-hassle way of doing it. Just because I didn’t grow sorghum in Guam, or purchase a landline for 51+ % commercial use, or drive a hybrid, or earn interest on a Roth IRA, or any one of the other ba-fuckin-jillion things you could take a deduction for doesn’t mean I couldn’t have. > [@](#): > > So you’re saying it’s not a lawyer conspiracy, it’s a wealthy conspiracy. And the wealthy lobby to make the tax laws more complicated so they can pay less. And the wealthy pay the fees for this to…tax lawyers. Yes, quite the distinction. Don’t be silly. The tax code looks the way it does because Congress keeps adding things to it. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/385 "2009-07-17T21:18:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Don’t be silly. The tax code looks the way it does because Congress keeps adding things to it. Indeed - surely they don’t keep adding things because of lobbyists, though, right? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/386 "2009-07-17T21:22:27Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I’m still waiting on that pony. > > I think I’ll name him Vladimir. And I’m still waiting for my bitchin’ Pursuit Special. How else am I supposed to survive the dystopian wasteland caused by socialized medicine? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/387 "2009-07-17T21:23:05Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > No, you’re not right. In fact, you’re pretty much a fucking moron. But you’re right, it’s all a big conspiracy to make the tax code complicated so that guys like you have to hire tax lawyers… oh wait, guys like you don’t hire tax lawyers. in fact, it’s pretty much only corporations and really rich people who need tax lawyers. And to them, the lawyer fees are small beans compared to the benefits they get from… can it be? The use their influence to get tax laws passed that are favorable to them? It’s _not_ a big lawyer conspiracy? Well holy shit! Who would have guessed that you’re wrong? Oh yeah. I would. Oh, toady of **Rand Rover** , who tries so hard to clean up his elephant dung which he calls “arguments,” I said absolutely nothing about conspiracy. I simply asked the question, “Who benefits from a complicated tax code?” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/388 "2009-07-17T21:23:57Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > I simply asked the question, “Who benefits from a complicated tax code?” The publishers of _Congressional Quarterly_? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/389 "2009-07-17T21:24:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So often, it seems to boil down to an exaggerated regard for property rights, as though it trumps all else. “What gives you right to take what is mine? Mine, mine, mine!” > > This land is your land, this land is my land. (Hey, that might make a pretty good song…but I digress…) A nation is, to some degree, a collective enterprise. (I know, I said “collective”. I’ll wait around if you want to run take a quick shower…) > > Our people are ours, along with the purple mountains and amber waves. Investing in the well-being of our people is both good policy and good government. But rest assured, **RR** , should I require advice on how to shelter my vast holdings from government predation, you’ll be first on my list. Protecting property rights isn’t the only thing I’m concerned about, it’s just one of the very few things I think the US federal government should be concerned about. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/390 "2009-07-17T21:34:15Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Oh, toady of **Rand Rover** , who tries so hard to clean up his elephant dung which he calls “arguments,” I said absolutely nothing about conspiracy. I simply asked the question, “Who benefits from a complicated tax code?” If missing the point were an art form, you’d be michaelfuckingangelo. No one sets out to create a complicated tax system because they think they’ll benefit from it. They just want their own little exception. And lots of people want their own little exception. And then something gets screwed up or changes so certain of the exceptions have to be modified. So, it gets complicated. But none of this matters to losers like you, because you are one of the 50 percent that don’t pay shit. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/391 "2009-07-17T21:42:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > If missing the point were an art form, you’d be michaelfuckingangelo. No one sets out to create a complicated tax system because they think they’ll benefit from it. They just want their own little exception. And lots of people want their own little exception. And then something gets screwed up or changes so certain of the exceptions have to be modified. So, it gets complicated. But none of this matters to losers like you, because you are one of the 50 percent that don’t pay shit. And you _juuuuuust_ happen to benefit from such a system. Tell me, **Rand** , do you support a simple tax system, or is that yet another point of hypocrisy for you? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/392 "2009-07-17T21:51:46Z")
You know, it’s interesting that when I posted a response to **Rand** , **ivn1188** responded. And when I posted a response to **ivn1188** , **Rand** responded. It’s so sweet to see you guys finish each other’s sentences like that. What are you going to get **Rand** for his birthday, **ivn**? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/393 "2009-07-17T21:53:44Z")
I’m still waiting for a good explanation as to why any of us should be concerned whether Mr. **Rover** gets taxed a bit extra or not. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/394 "2009-07-17T22:19:58Z")
Look, **Duke**. I’m not against socialized medicine. Nor do I care about state aid. I don’t even care about you being a tax burden. What I do care about is that you are an incompetent intellectual pantywaist who sees the world in a nice crisp black and white. You spout stupid bullshit about how complicated tax laws are horrible and benefit the rich while you, the proletariat, shoulder the burden of supporting the bourgeois. Unfortunately for you, you are in fact a complete imbecile. Our tax laws are complicated because everyone wants their little tax break and so they write their congressman and over time we have all these little complicated deductions and people like you, who don’t even understand the system, decry the tax law as being bad because it’s so complicated you must be sure that someone is getting a free ride. Really, though, it’s just your constant inanity that annoys me. It must be nice to live in your world, where repetition of simplistic canards serves as intellectual debate. Even your insults are worthless. Your excoriation of **Rand Rover** for being a hypocrite for taking public money to go to school (if indeed he did) is a good start, but what about you? Why aren’t you a lawyer working to simplify the tax code or to grind whatever other personal axes you have? You have the exact same opportunity to get student loans, and you have just as much right to put your own worthless opinions out there. No, instead you have a simplistic view where you, the poor huddled mass of cheeto-dust and cheap liquor, are the sole shining beacon of reason in the wilderness. “Can’t you see it’s all so simple?” you exclaim, secure in the knowledge that you alone have achieved nirvana and have transcended chaotic reality to achieve an olympian detatchment granting you nigh-ominscience. Sadly, the real world remains the messy and difficult thing it always has been, where even the smartest, most well intentioned, and thoughtful people run into tradeoffs and disagreements and unforeseen problems. Even better is your apparent hypothesis that people who are successful must have gotten that way because they are conniving backstabbers out for their own good. Of course no one in congress actually _cares_; they are simply trying to survive in a dog-eat-dog world, unlike you, who are a shining beacon of selflessness. If it’s true that the world is indeed based around everyone being out for themselves, it speaks volumes that you have most assuredly failed to compete. Like the computer in War Games, you have decided the only way to win is not to play. But your failure serves to rebut your very own point, because we _do_ have safety nets in place, put there by the very people you elected! But hey, why don’t you just stick to asking me what I am buying **Rand Rover** (or any of the other people disagreeing with you) for their birthdays? That way, you are not going to be in the position of exposing even more of your ignorance to the world, and you can go home and jack off over your signed picture of Steve Forbes, comfortable in the afterglow of telling it like it really is on the internets, exalting in your victory over the confused cognoscenti who just can’t see that it’s, like, all so simple if you just think of them as people, man. ETA: By the way **Duke** , your family members are probably all gimps too. You probably formed your opinions by watching MTV turned up really loud to drown out the sound of your parents humping at the other end of the doublewide. Oh wait, did I _cross a line_, there? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/395 "2009-07-17T22:21:11Z")
I surely understand that there are a lot of vested interests muddying up the water of the health care debate in America. It ain’t gonna be easy, but if anyone can do it I think this guy can. Here’s what I can’t wrap my head around. How can people not understand that there is no room for the profit component in health care? They would be outraged if their fire services or police services were for profit. (Think for a minute what a capitalists wet dream a for profit model for police / fire services would be!) Canadians may bitch about wait times, from time to time, but they’d never support a politician who wanted to substantially alter access. For true. I see the scare ads about letting the government make your healthcare choices for you. What the? Currently it’s all insurance hacks denying people access to things their Doctor’s want them to have. Here in Canada the doctor’s control access to resources, a much MUCH better idea. You have to understand that in any triage system, like an emerg, there is always a guy who thinks he should be next because he was ahead of the gunshot wound! These people don’t disappear with universal healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/396 "2009-07-17T22:25:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So, it looks like I may be paying for health insurance for a lot of you motherfuckers. Is there anything else I can get you while I’m at it? A brand(!) new(!) car(!) perhaps? Or how about a week in Hawaii? No, thank you. Basic health insurance with the emphasis on prevention is what everyone needs. I am so glad you’re here to help provide it for us, just like my paying taxes helps provide you with interstate highways and the dept. of defense etc. See how it works? We all help one another on certain stuff. And now USA can join the rest of the civilized world that actually takes care of its citizens and invests in its peoples. What a notion. The rest of your post is so silly I won’t bother to reply to it. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/397 "2009-07-17T22:26:11Z")
Also, **Rand** I’d like a Mountain Dew please. I mean if you’re offering I might as well ask for one. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/398 "2009-07-17T22:32:46Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > … And you talk _just like him_! It’s so sweet. Here, I dedicated [this song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEULVyg1O_8) just for you. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/399 "2009-07-17T22:42:36Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I think that, when evaluating whether the federal government should do anything, the question should be asked whether the proposed action falls within the limited role the fed gov should play in our society. I think the fed gov should protect society from enemies (such as other countries and terrorists) and not much else (I think certain aspects of the FDA are fine, too, for example). What if terrorists attacked us with biological agents that could only be fought by providing comprehensive health care? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/400 "2009-07-17T22:57:00Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > And you _juuuuuust_ happen to benefit from such a system. > > Tell me, **Rand** , do you support a simple tax system, or is that yet another point of hypocrisy for you? I’m sorry, I don’t speak stupid, so you’re going to have to spell this out for me–where’s my hypocrisy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=21)