# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/501 "2009-07-19T01:15:04Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > Not all jobs offer insurance. Especially ones that an unskilled 20-something can get. Unskilled sure, but **Guin’s** not a 20-something. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/502 "2009-07-19T01:17:12Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What? If they walk into a doctor’s office to obtain health care, the doctor will refuse to provide it to them? I did, in fact, have that very experience last year. My husband and I both needed some medical stuff, but did not have insurance. I researched the costs and determined that yes, we could actually afford to pay _in cash_ the very day we had treatment. [Here is the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=477572) from last year where I ask for advice on resolving one of the problems, which basically came down to _I could not get a medical test even though I could pay cash_. I had to cross a state line to get a test done. I also could not get a tetanus booster around the same time - one HAD to have before I could start work at a job site. No tetanus update, no job. The booster costs… oh, around $25 if I recall. Again - _multiple_ refusals DESPITE having the money to pay _in hand_. If I had no insurance I would not be seen - be careful and when you get hurt go to the ER for your shot. WTF? That’s your “free-market” in action - it’s not a free market at all! If you aren’t going through the insurance racket you ain’t shit and you ain’t getting shit - _even if you have the money to pay up front!_ ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/503 "2009-07-19T01:17:16Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Are you so dense that you are ignoring that they feel it is ok because is better for all to be free from fear and want? I don’t really care why they feel it is OK to take my money. Feeling that way is bad enough. > [@](#): > > You are also ignoring that many people are willing to give the money to make this possible for all Americans. Then let them give it, and leave me alone. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/504 "2009-07-19T01:29:00Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I don’t really care why they feel it is OK to take my money. Feeling that way is bad enough. > > Then let them give it, and leave me alone. Orangutans are solitary, monkeys, like us, are social and communal. If we really left you alone, you’d learn that in a big-ass hurry. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/505 "2009-07-19T01:32:19Z")
[http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/business/01meddebt.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/business/01meddebt.html) A mere 68 percent of the people filing bankruptcy due to illness had medical coverage. Had . If you have it, it may be only good until you need it. Then they wont pay. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/506 "2009-07-19T01:37:44Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > There is a way to get health insurance, pre-existing condition, or not. It’s called getting a job. I know that’s a foreign concept for you…but it’s true. Wait, employer-provided insurance is FORCED to cover someone despite pre-existing conditions? This is news to me. If this is true, then where is all the controversy over “job lock” (being unable to change jobs because medical insurance in the new job won’t cover you) come from? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/507 "2009-07-19T01:40:22Z")
Liberal media. They made it up. I mean, otherwise you are left saying that American business cares more about profit than they do about Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/508 "2009-07-19T01:53:57Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Unskilled sure, but **Guin’s** not a 20-something. I have a college degree – in something other than internet trolling, as your’s appears to be. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/509 "2009-07-19T01:54:39Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Unskilled sure, but **Guin’s** not a 20-something. [I wasn’t referring to Guinistasia.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11353868&postcount=479) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/510 "2009-07-19T01:54:55Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > **Der Trihs** : It’s impossible to have both individual freedom _ **and** _ safety & security. It’s an inverse relationship; the more you have of one, the less you have of the other. You can’t have both. Wrong. You have less safety and security, you also have less freedom. Which is much of the point of opposing social programs; to make people less secure, and therefore less free. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > This country was founded on the former. Why are you trying to change it? If you love socialism, why not move to a socialistic country instead of trying to turn our country into a socialistic hellhole? “Socialist hellholes” are better places to live; it’s America that’s degenerating towards a hellhole with it’s fanatic attachment to privatization and the free market at any cost. And this society was founded on slavery and only landowners being allowed to vote; the kind of libertarian values I oppose . > [@magellan01](#): > > Our healthcare system is the envy of the world. Utter garbage; it’s the _ **horror** _ of the world. People in other nations have trouble believing just how awful it is. > [@magellan01](#): > > No, they want people to pull their own weight. I’m not a libertarian, but think about it this way: wouldn’t it be great if everyone provided for themselves (aside from military, etc.). Now, while that may be unrealistic in total, how about if 99% did? Theoretically, it would be great, right? Well to do that, you have to not provide a ton of stuff to people. Once you do, they get complacent, lazy. And you’ve robbed the country of what could be an amazingly powerful engine—where virtually everyone works and contributes. It’s called “serfdom”; the ultimate end goal of libertarianism. A society where the rich are the masters, and the commoners do what they are told or die. A libertarian society is one where your boss can demand your daughter as a sex toy, and you’ll hand her over because you’ll starve if you don’t. And the government won’t interfere. > [@magellan01](#): > > No, the point is that we are each entitled to the fruits of our own mind and body. Everyone is equal. The idea is to spur great people to do great things. And a complacent population is not as likely to strive. Libertarianism is AGAINST equality. It wants to eliminate the ability of the common people to defend themselves through the government, which is the only effective tool they have. The libertarians have no interest in equality or freedom; they oppose them. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/511 "2009-07-19T01:56:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Orangutans are solitary, monkeys, like us, are social and communal. If we really left you alone, you’d learn that in a big-ass hurry. The fact that humans are monkeys and therefore communal doesn’t justify every program that you think would benefit everyone. There are other things that I think benefit everyone that I think are just fine (and in fact mandatory) for the US federal government to do. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/512 "2009-07-19T01:58:07Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s called “serfdom”; the ultimate end goal of libertarianism. A society where the rich are the masters, and the commoners do what they are told or die. A libertarian society is one where your boss can demand your daughter as a sex toy, and you’ll hand her over because you’ll starve if you don’t. And the government won’t interfere. > > Libertarianism is AGAINST equality. It wants to eliminate the ability of the common people to defend themselves through the government, which is the only effective tool they have. The libertarians have no interest in equality or freedom; they oppose them. Dude, why do you even try anymore? Absolutely no one takes you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/513 "2009-07-19T02:02:27Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Dude, why do you even try anymore? Absolutely no one takes you seriously. One could say the same about you. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/514 "2009-07-19T02:02:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Dude, why do you even try anymore? Absolutely no one takes you seriously. I picture you saying that to yourself in the mirror every morning. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/515 "2009-07-19T02:04:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s your “free-market” in action - it’s not a free market at all! And that’s part of the problem - healthcare is not based on free-market principles. Due to competition, the free-market always provides a better service and lower costs vs. a government system. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/516 "2009-07-19T02:06:16Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > And that’s part of the problem - healthcare is not based on free-market principles. Due to competition, the free-market always provides a better service and lower costs vs. a government system. No, it doesn’t, and never has. Your statement is an ideologically driven statement of faith, and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/517 "2009-07-19T02:06:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Dude, why do you even try anymore? Absolutely no one takes you seriously. You know what’s funny? He’s taken more seriously than you are. I’m sure you’ll try to blame us for that, but it’s really all your fault. **Der Trihs** , at least, didn’t name himself after a failed social philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/518 "2009-07-19T02:06:29Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > And that’s part of the problem - healthcare is not based on free-market principles. Due to competition, the free-market always provides a better service and lower costs vs. a government system. So I’d like to repeat a question asked before: what changes, exactly, do you think are needed (if any) to improve the current system that (in your opinion) would create a better result than any step towards UHC? Be as specific as possible; if, for example, taking down certain regulations is needed, which ones? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/519 "2009-07-19T02:07:27Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Dude, why do you even try anymore? Absolutely no one takes you seriously. As mentioned, the current health system we have makes sense only to a medieval feudal lord. So in this case, many do take **Der Trihs** seriously. If you are a shining example of libertarianism :dubious: then it is no wonder that even Republicans think that Libertarianism is a philosophy created for and by rich teenagers. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/520 "2009-07-19T02:09:50Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Due to competition, the free-market always provides a better service and lower costs vs. a government system. That statement is one of the points under debate. If you want to convince anybody, you need to back it with sound arguments and cites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=27)