# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/641 "2009-07-19T13:53:48Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > What about her parents? Are they destitute? How much are the meds each month? This ignores the fact that she can’t buy insurance. She won’t be able to be insured under a parent’s policy if she is 1) over 18 years of age and 2) not a full-time student. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/642 "2009-07-19T14:07:26Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > No. The current system sucks. A government-controlled system would suck even worse. The best system would be a one without any government involvement whatsoever. Prices would be set by supply and demand. It works for dentists. Why would private insurance companies provide coverage for people they lose money on? We already see companies refusing to provide coverage for people with pre-existing circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/643 "2009-07-19T14:10:21Z")
> [@leander](#): > > From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11115162&postcount=112): > And if you’d like to know what sweet Guinie does in her spare time, just try wading through [this](http://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=3298&page=21)snark filled train wreck over at Giraffe’s board. In another thread she claims she has OCD, and that - get this - her OCD is much more debilitating than her epilepsy. LOL. I have a pretty good BS detector, and the needle pegs when she presents her reasons why she can’t find a job or keep a job. The cold hard truth is that she’s a child, and hence unemployable. There’s no shortage of these types of people. As I mentioned above, I have a few family members who are the same way. While the rest of us are giving, they’re taking. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/644 "2009-07-19T14:26:14Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > This ignores the fact that she can’t buy insurance. > > She won’t be able to be insured under a parent’s policy if she is 1) over 18 years of age and 2) not a full-time student. He doesn’t care that she can’t buy insurance. He thinks her parents should pay out of pocket for her meds. One wonders what he would say if she needed a bone marrow transplant, or chemotherapy and radiation. Probably something along the lines of “tough shit,” I’m guessing, but I’d be happy to be wrong. Now, if she lived in one of those hellholes like Denmark or Switzerland, this would be a total non-issue. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/645 "2009-07-19T14:27:00Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > This ignores the fact that she can’t buy insurance. > > She won’t be able to be insured under a parent’s policy if she is 1) over 18 years of age and 2) not a full-time student. Who cares? Her father is a funeral director. Surely he can fork over a few dollars for her meds out of his pocket? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/646 "2009-07-19T14:32:25Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Man… do you even get this whole government thing? How it works, I mean… where it comes from? What it IS?? One thing it is NOT is some Mysterious Black Monolith plopped down from who-knows-where with scary choir chanting as a soundtrack. > > Sit down a spell and listen real close-like. You see, _ **WE** _ are the government. That is, the U.S. Government is made up of _people_. REAL people. Real _AMERICAN_ people! People like you and me. People from Ohio, even. > > “Now how does all them people become some Mysterious Black Monolith?” You ask? > > Whoa!!! Calm down, friend! I’ll back up. See, the Government is _not_ a big mystery… those people… the people I mentioned before? Remember? See, they were _elected_. That’s like… well it means… well, you know when your buddies and you choose teams when you play kickball? Yeah. It’s like that. The Government is made up of people… who are elected… right? Like a kickball team?.. they are _elected_ by other people… folks from all over! Yes, even city folk…!! Yeah! And then, and then they _organize_, these people, to do things for people, and see that everyone is safe and that nooooooobody gets hurt. > > And the best part is, if they don’t do a good job? Or even if we just don’t like the way they are handling things? Then… THEN, we can elect some other people---- EVEN YOU or ME!!---- to do the job instead!!! So, you see, it’s all up to US!!! > > And that’s what a Government is! You don’t need to be afraid anymore. Unless you’re afraid that poor folk with no money might get band-aids for their boo-boos! > > So… how 'bout a hug? …now just put that gun down first… there you go! There you go! WHO’s a big boy, huh? WHO’s a\* big, GOOD,\* boy? LOL. Seriously. Good work. But when all is said and done, the government is still not allowed to do anything it wants, regardless of who our representatives and senators are. Were you not taught in elementary school that our federal government is a \*limited \*government? If our federal government can do anything it wants, there would be no need for a constitution. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/647 "2009-07-19T14:36:05Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > But when all is said and done, the government is still not allowed to do anything it wants, regardless of who our representatives and senators are. Were you not taught in elementary school that our federal government is a \*limited \*government? If our federal government can do anything it wants, there would be no need for a constitution. But who other than you ever said the government \*\*\*was \*\*\*allowed to do whatever it wants? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/648 "2009-07-19T14:41:03Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Who cares? Her father is a funeral director. Surely he can fork over a few dollars for her meds out of his pocket? Are you insured? If so, you have no freakin’ idea what meds cost out of pocket. You also have no idea what her father makes. If I were Guin, I’d do whatever I could to get Medicaid. That way, if she gets a full-time job with benefits, she can use the Medicaid coverage as creditable coverage. I realize that, to you, the right thing for her to do would be to bankrupt herself to pay for her meds, or just go ahead and seize away, if she can’t pay, but I doubt anyone else would blame her for trying to find a way to get health insurance despite her condition. Most Americans just don’t think it’s right that people should have to empty their bank accounts to get medications and treatments that they need to live. Thank god. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/649 "2009-07-19T14:45:17Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > True. But the federal government can’t just spend the money on _ **anything** _. We have a limited federal government. The federal government can’t do anything it wants. No one said it could. But the courts have consistently ruled, and 40+ years of practice has established, that the power to spend wrt to providing health care IS one of its powers. You might disagree, but recognize that your opinion is not widely shared. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/650 "2009-07-19T15:14:24Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > What facts do we have state that once the government provides extended services to the public they tend not to do anything? According to the page I linked to, countries that have these types of services (i.e. Sweden, Norway, France, etc) have lower unemployment rates. That doesn’t look to me like more people on the dole sitting around waiting for their check to come. > > So what other measurement is there that once a government starts handing out things like healthcare, the people get complacent and lazy? Unemployment rates seem to contradict that and I can’t really come up with any other way to measure laziness. I haven’t read the whole thread, and probably won’t. But I wanted to share a single data point. I knew a woman who was a single mother of four. She was on Welfare (before I knew her). She used the money from Welfare to get an education and to provide for her children. By the time I knew her (she was a friend of my dad’s) she was gainfully employed as an Air Traffic Control Specialist. Later she became a supervisor for a flight test contractor until she retired. ‘The plural of “anecdote” is not “evidence”.’ But at least this is one case I can point to where a person ‘on the dole’ did not ‘sit around waiting for her check to come’. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/651 "2009-07-19T15:17:59Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > But at least this is one case I can point to where a person ‘on the dole’ did not ‘sit around waiting for her check to come’. Kudos to her. Seriously. But unfortunately she’s the exception to the rule. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/652 "2009-07-19T15:23:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Our healthcare system is the envy of the world. . Errr, no it isn’t. _Some_ of your medical facilities, _individually_, are rated quite highly, and foreigners come to your country for these facilities. But if people really envied your whole system, it would be the model for other countries to follow, and I’m not seeing that, worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/653 "2009-07-19T15:50:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The profit motive doesn’t reduce price when they can jack it up and you have no choice but to pay or die… > > Or they are owned by right wingers, like just about every large corporation. What makes you think that politics magically goes away outside of the government ? Come on, you’re usually more sophisticated than this. They can’t just “jack it up” except in the case of patented medicines or treatments, and there are time limits on that. Plus, there are almost always alternative treatments. Of course, development of new treatments will be reduced in proportion as the ability to profit off them is reduced under whatever scheme gets implemented. And this idea that people are dying because of inability to pay is over the top. A lot of Europeans believe that crap and it just isn’t true. You can walk into any emergency room in the country, say “I’m a billionaire but you doctors can kiss my ass in lieu of payment,” and the law still requires that they treat you if it appears to be an emergency. I don’t know what your experience with corporations has been, but politics never gets in the way of making money. If Merck found a loophole in the law that allowed them to sell crack to kids, they’d break ground on a crack factory tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/654 "2009-07-19T15:59:17Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Man… do you even get this whole government thing? How it works, I mean… where it comes from? What it IS?? One thing it is NOT is some Mysterious Black Monolith plopped down from who-knows-where with scary choir chanting as a soundtrack. > > Sit down a spell and listen real close-like. You see, _ **WE** _ are the government. That is, the U.S. Government is made up of _people_. REAL people. Real _AMERICAN_ people! People like you and me. People from Ohio, even. > > “Now how does all them people become some Mysterious Black Monolith?” You ask? > > Whoa!!! Calm down, friend! I’ll back up. See, the Government is _not_ a big mystery… those people… the people I mentioned before? Remember? See, they were _elected_. That’s like… well it means… well, you know when your buddies and you choose teams when you play kickball? Yeah. It’s like that. The Government is made up of people… who are elected… right? Like a kickball team?.. they are _elected_ by other people… folks from all over! Yes, even city folk…!! Yeah! And then, and then they _organize_, these people, to do things for people, and see that everyone is safe and that nooooooobody gets hurt. > > And the best part is, if they don’t do a good job? Or even if we just don’t like the way they are handling things? Then… THEN, we can elect some other people---- EVEN YOU or ME!!---- to do the job instead!!! So, you see, it’s all up to US!!! > > And that’s what a Government is! You don’t need to be afraid anymore. Unless you’re afraid that poor folk with no money might get band-aids for their boo-boos! > > So… how 'bout a hug? …now just put that gun down first… there you go! There you go! WHO’s a big boy, huh? WHO’s a\* big, GOOD,\* boy? You owe me a new monitor. There is beverage all over mine. Good one. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/655 "2009-07-19T16:28:37Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > And this idea that people are dying because of inability to pay is over the top. A lot of Europeans believe that crap and it just isn’t true. You can walk into any emergency room in the country, say “I’m a billionaire but you doctors can kiss my ass in lieu of payment,” and the law still requires that they treat you if it appears to be an emergency. You haven’t thought this through. People who can’t pay don’t get preventative care. That means the guy who has high blood pressure doesn’t learn about it until he has a heart attack. So we have a $50,000 hospital surgery bill when some medication could have averted the problem for a tenth of a percent of the cost. Not to mention people with insurance who need treatments or tests that their doctor wants but insurance decides it doesn’t want to pay for are also out of luck. It happens all the time, and people do die because their insurance companies don’t want to cover treatments. The idea that you can get emergency care is a common misunderstood one. Emergency care is just that. It’s for a knife sticking out of your back, not angioplasty. You can’t just walk into a hospital and tell them to give you a bone marrow transplant for free. So your point isn’t a valid one at all. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/656 "2009-07-19T16:55:25Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > And this idea that people are dying because of inability to pay is over the top. A lot of Europeans believe that crap and it just isn’t true. You can walk into any emergency room in the country, say “I’m a billionaire but you doctors can kiss my ass in lieu of payment,” and the law still requires that they treat you if it appears to be an emergency. Chronic illness isn’t an emergency. Prescriptions drugs are a huge and growing portion healthcare expenses. What do you think they do with prescription drugs in the emergency room? The reason I posted my story was for people like you who really just don’t get it to understand what sorts of money we’re talking about, even when the people involved are insured. If you have diabetes, or epilepsy, or heart disease, or high blood pressure, or a clotting disorder, or kidney failure, or lung cancer, or schizophrenia, or Alzheimer, or Down, or a high-risk pregnancy, or asthma, or a wound that won’t heal, or AIDS, or lupus, or COPD, or bipolar, or Crohn, or PCOS, or sickle cell, or any of hundreds and hundreds of chronic illnesses–the ER can’t do anything. They can stabilize you in the event of something catastrophic, but they can’t care for you indefinitely. And each of these diseases has drugs that help, treatments that work, but they aren’t available in the ER. A chronic disease requires chronic treatment, not once a year treatment. Not a glib pat on the back and a “go to the emergency room. They’re not allowed to turn you away!” This over-reliance on ERs by the ignorant on both sides is one of the big driving forces behind the escalation in costs. How many times do facts have to be told before they are no longer ignored? Every single damned one of you needs an “It’s a Wonderful Life” moment. You can’t get it because you don’t choose to try to understand. You ignore any facts that don’t fit your preconceptions, and you ask people to die to save you money. When you want people to die for your cause, by god you should try not to come off as such enormous dicks. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/657 "2009-07-19T17:00:27Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You haven’t thought this through. People who can’t pay don’t get preventative care. That means the guy who has high blood pressure doesn’t learn about it until he has a heart attack. So we have a $50,000 hospital surgery bill when some medication could have averted the problem for a tenth of a percent of the cost. I don’t even think you could escape with a $50000 bill for open heart surgery. The estimate we were given for a second surgery for my husband was $150,000-200,000, plus travel to Cleveland for either one or two weeks, which meant time off work for me plus those expenses of being out of town. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/658 "2009-07-19T17:04:27Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How many times do facts have to be told before they are no longer ignored? The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind. The answer is blowin’ in the wind. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/659 "2009-07-19T17:13:04Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > or lupus It’s never lupus. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/660 "2009-07-19T17:27:04Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You haven’t thought this through. People who can’t pay don’t get preventative care. That means the guy who has high blood pressure doesn’t learn about it until he has a heart attack. So we have a $50,000 hospital surgery bill when some medication could have averted the problem for a tenth of a percent of the cost. This is 100% true. The best way to hold down health care costs is via preventive medicine, something that is a luxury to an uninsured person, and which causes emergencies like angioplasties that could have been avoided. This is wasteful financially and inhumane IMO. Additionally, if you go to an ER with a serious emergency, like the severe injuries from a car accident, sure, they can’t turn you away. But they will certainly bill you, and that bill is likely to be the same amount as a college degree would cost you. Five figures, at least. Most people, even people who are careful with their money, don’t have cash like that laying around. Thus, these people are forced to declare bankruptcy. As I said, most Americans think that is wrong and want it to change, so maybe it will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=34)