# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/921 "2009-07-20T06:44:18Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > So–you haven’t qualified for that permanent disability yet, have you? The temporary thing ran out some time ago. > > How much do you spend on dogfood every month? What does this have to do with anything? These would be the sort of questions you would ask someone who wants the taxpayer to cover their medical bills. Since I pay for insurance thru my husband’s employer, it doesn’t apply to me. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/922 "2009-07-20T06:52:24Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I am not angry. If anything I am disgusted. > > As for being unable to purchase insurance, that is a temporary condition - which can be avoided - for anyone who chooses to not demand that someone else pay their way. There are plenty of stories out there about those who cannot buy insurance for anything but the most exorbitant premiums because of their medical circumstances. Since their inability to get insurance is directly tied to the reasons why they need it in the first place, why is their inability “temporary”? Or do you not believe that such people exist? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/923 "2009-07-20T06:54:19Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? No, the illegals do not suddenly start living by the letter of the law - one of the reasons they come here is because we have all of these programs that give things to them, such as MediCal, DentiCal, ADC, subsidized housing and all the rest. All they need is forged papers to get them, or the use of someone else’s ID. Or one legal person providing a place where they can all live. Covering all these people who pay little or no tax is killing California. Well, I admit that I had to wait until Amnesty and the NACARA law to get a green card to get a driving license and file taxes to get a return. Before that, my workplace took all taxes and I never got any of it back when I was an Illegal. I do remember that before being legal, in one occasion, I was so sick that I had blood once in my stool; I never did go to the hospital as I thought, mistakenly, that I could be deported; fortunately, I got better. It is interesting that nowadays there are laws being proposed or in the books that make what I erroneously assumed then a reality now. But never mind that, it deals with humanity. > [@](#): > > Which is why I didn’t say “all”. Unlike you, I do not see the world in black and white. There is indeed darkness in not realizing that a system that is driving families into bankruptcy is not acceptable when those kind of bankruptcies are virtually unheard off in other developed nations. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/924 "2009-07-20T07:00:03Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I am not angry. If anything I am disgusted. > > As for being unable to purchase insurance, that is a temporary condition - which can be avoided - for anyone who chooses to not demand that someone else pay their way. You misunderstand. There are people who cannot purchase health insurance for any price. There are others who cannot purchase it for less than thousands of dollars a month. There are those who have insurance and still are driven into bankruptcy when they get sick. You don’t understand any of those things because your anger at someone getting something for free makes you unable to think clearly. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/925 "2009-07-20T07:01:10Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Jesus. Other developed nations are not the US. There are other things, really important things, that we don’t share with those nations other than a UHC. Useless retort. > [@](#): > > So, you think we should go with this billion dollar experiment because there might be 100 families that went bankrupt _only_ because of health care costs? Dontcha think it might make more sense to work on insurance reform? That 100 number was just rhetorical. In reality the number of families is much larger as it is clear your cite is not properly dealing with the studies that point to health care cost as the main reason why many are going into bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/926 "2009-07-20T07:17:14Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > God, so much stupidity and so little time - I really need to get to bed. I don’t think that will help with your imbecility, but what the hell - give it a shot. > [@](#): > > 1. I didn’t say anything like “More free shit = more mewling bastards” You certainly did, you addle-minded cow. Again, in your own fucking words: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **curlcoat** > why are their parents pumping out children they cannot afford? The answer is - because they know the government will pay for them This isn’t a bar-room chat where you can just pretend you didn’t say something you clearly did. It’s right there - your own stupid words. > [@](#): > > 1. Do you honestly think that birth rates for the _whole country_ apply to whether or not we have a UHC? Not really, but then again, I wasn’t the one who was making the asinine assertion in the first place. That was all you. > [@](#): > > 1. I note that you fail to include any information on those other countries WRT whether or not they have generations of welfare cheats and/or whether or not installing a UHC did anything about that. Since that was the subject of the post you responded to ya know… You’re right. I also didn’t include any of the other extensive social services the EU provides, _in addition_ to UHC, at far higher average levels than the US. And since you are evidently too dense to grasp the actual “subject of the post you responded to ya know”, let me try to break it down again for you one more time: - you assert a direct relationship between birth rates and government services - I provide evidence which indicates in fact an _inverse_ relationship between birth rates and government services Don’t like my evidence or the conclusions I draw there from? Fine. Provide some of your own, then. Enough of your unsupported, horseshit, paranoid ramblings about welfare cheats bringing down the Republic or making UHC in the US unfeasible.\* Put up or shut up. (I know, I know - you’ll do neither.) \*The one thing on which you and I agree is that unless illegal immigration is controlled, UHC and other social services are unsustainable. However, I’ve a feeling that even if the borders were shut as tightly as your ears and eyes, you’d still be opposed to those services “on principle”. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/927 "2009-07-20T11:09:21Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What does this have to do with anything? These would be the sort of questions you would ask someone who wants the taxpayer to cover their medical bills. Since I pay for insurance thru my husband’s employer, it doesn’t apply to me. No, you want the taxpayers to support your decision to never work again. Your state funds ran out. Last anybody heard, you were hoping the feds would pony up. Any success on that front? **the curlcoat saga** would be a great one to receive close attention. Any inconsistencies? Your checkered tale of medical woes seems to have changed over time. Totally debilitating? Except for those long trips to drive your doggies around. However, the thought of reading through so many unpleasant words would make buzzards gag. (If they could read, that is.) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/928 "2009-07-20T11:22:36Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Agree. But she claims she wants a job. If her parents are currently paying for her meds, and she is capable of working, what’s stopping her from getting a job at McDonald’s? At least it’s work. I don’t know about where she is, but where I live _McDonald’s is not hiring_ right now. You DO know the economy is crap right now, correct? I’ve been applying for jobs for two years now and only got three of them, two of which did not last more than three months and none of which paid nearly what I was earning before and I don’t have a limiting medical issue to contend with. If the healthy and able-bodied are having trouble finding a job, any job (and in many parts of the country they are) someone with a chronic medical condition, particularly one that limits the ability to get around (i.e. prevents one from driving a car) is going to have a MUCH harder time find employment no matter how many resumes they send out or applications they submit. The more important question, under the circumstances, might be _is she actively looking for_ a job, as opposed to, say, twiddling her thumbs all day? Not that it’s any of your damn business. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/929 "2009-07-20T11:31:14Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > ^ so says the woman dependent on social security disability. > > Which, I’m not OK, you’re independently wealthy, or at least middle class then? You don’t _need_ that monthly check to survive? _Then why are you accepting the tax money of someone else?_ Since you’re so opposed to the concept? > [@curlcoat](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > You know, a taxpayer funded government entitlement program. > > Which, it isn’t. Which it IS. Remember waaaaaay back to when you used to get a W2 every year. There is a line on the form for “social security tax”. That money collection from working people goes into a pool, and it is withdrawn from that pool to pay for those collecting a social security benefit. If you were an independent contractor, freelancer, or the like then you explicitly paid social security tax out of your earning. It is, unquestionably, taxpayer funded. My taxes, **Crafter Man’s** taxes, even **Guinistasia’s** taxes back when she was employed have gone to pay for the program you collect money from every month. Jumping up and down screaming “No! No! It’s not like that!” does not change reality. You ARE taking money from a taxpayer funded government entitlement program every single month. If you are so opposed to having to pay tax money that is then given to other people _HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY CASHING YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK EVERY MONTH?_ The hypocrisy is appalling. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/930 "2009-07-20T11:43:41Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > That’s what I don’t get… if her parents are paying for her meds as she claims, why does it matter if a job offers health insurance? Because being able to pay for medication is not the same as being able to pay for an accident or sudden severe illness unrelated to her chronic condition. Being able to pay for meds is not the same as being able to pay for a stay in the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/931 "2009-07-20T11:47:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t know about where she is Perhaps we should find out, search online classifieds, and help her find a job? Shouldn’t be too hard of a task, seeing how medical insurance is not actually an issue (as she originally claimed). And people say I’m not compassionate… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/932 "2009-07-20T11:49:35Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > This right here seems to be a snapshot of the pro-UHC mindset. \*\* They don’t care if the people can pay for health insurance or their medications or whatever themselves because they think that all people in this country should have the same coverage no matter what their financial situation is. \*\* No, noone owes _us_ any explanation \*\*but if they are trying to get free money/services out of taxpayer funded programs they jolly better be prepared to explain why they need it and why they can’t pay for it themselves. \*\* And IMO, the answer had better not be because I wanted to spend my money on other things. I fail to see why their desire to spend their money on other things trumps my desire to do the same thing. Let’s see… you collect social security disability every month. You claim you are not dependent on it, in other words, you do not need it to survive. You _could_ pay for whatever it provides you on your own. Social security is paid for out of social security taxes on peoples’ wages. Therefore you are accepting someone else’s tax money every month. If you don’t _need_ it, how, given the above statement, do you justify accepting that money every month? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/933 "2009-07-20T11:50:22Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Because being able to pay for medication is not the same as being able to pay for an accident or sudden severe illness unrelated to her chronic condition. Being able to pay for meds is not the same as being able to pay for a stay in the hospital. According to her, she’s currently self-insured under her parents. So explain again why she must have a job that has health benefits? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/934 "2009-07-20T11:50:37Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t know about where she is, but where I live _McDonald’s is not hiring_ right now. You DO know the economy is crap right now, correct? I’ve been applying for jobs for two years now and only got three of them, two of which did not last more than three months and none of which paid nearly what I was earning before and I don’t have a limiting medical issue to contend with. If the healthy and able-bodied are having trouble finding a job, any job (and in many parts of the country they are) someone with a chronic medical condition, particularly one that limits the ability to get around (i.e. prevents one from driving a car) is going to have a MUCH harder time find employment no matter how many resumes they send out or applications they submit. > > The more important question, under the circumstances, might be _is she actively looking for_ a job, as opposed to, say, twiddling her thumbs all day? Not that it’s any of your damn business. Her current excuse is the economy. Now I think we can all agree that it is a shit time to look for a job, but let’s please bear in mind that she was unemployed for FOUR YEARS before her last job. She had a litany of excuses for that - but it mostly came down to “Mommy and Daddy take care of me so I don’t really have to try.” If you want to fall for her bullshit feel free, but even if Obama himself gave her a lifetime of free health insurance and cured all her supposed illnesses, she would still find a way to stay locked up in her parent’s house typing away at the computer and avoiding any real work. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/935 "2009-07-20T11:54:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > …Which it IS. Remember waaaaaay back to when you used to get a W2 every year. There is a line on the form for “social security tax”. That money collection from working people goes into a pool, and it is withdrawn from that pool to pay for those collecting a social security benefit. If you were an independent contractor, freelancer, or the like then you explicitly paid social security tax out of your earning. It is, unquestionably, taxpayer funded. My taxes, **Crafter Man’s** taxes, even **Guinistasia’s** taxes back when she was employed have gone to pay for the program you collect money from every month. Jumping up and down screaming “No! No! It’s not like that!” does not change reality. You ARE taking money from a taxpayer funded government entitlement program every single month. > > If you are so opposed to having to pay tax money that is then given to other people _HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY CASHING YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK EVERY MONTH?_ > > The hypocrisy is appalling. According to one version of **the curlcoat saga** , she has not yet qualified for Social Security–the early kind for disability. She did receive state benefits for some time after she decided to quit work–because her medical condition(s) were just too much to bear. But the State of California stopped the money. (And she jumped all over me when I mentioned I’d received SS from ages 4 through 18 due to my father’s death. As one of those dreadful “child” creatures, I had no right to collect anything. Apparently she was grown in a vat & skipped childhood.) But details are unclear & her story has shifted over time. It’s too bad that nobody has the stomach to give her saga the close, detailed attention others have given Guinistasia’s. Perhaps she will bring us up to date! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/936 "2009-07-20T11:58:02Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Perhaps we should find out, search online classifieds, and help her find a job? Shouldn’t be too hard of a task, seeing how medical insurance is not actually an issue (as she originally claimed). And people say I’m not compassionate… 🙂 I am all for you providing such help to **Guin** - however, as someone who has been searching the classifieds in the Chicago area for two years and applying to anything I am even remotely qualified for, and have had no job offers from that avenue, I would caution you to not be over optimistic about the chances of finding a job that way. My three jobs in the past two years I have obtained in the following manner: 1. Once, walking into a store to make a purchase, I overheard two of the salesladies talking about putting up a help wanted sign and offered to apply on the spot. (I have done similar things in other retail establishments, that just happened to be the one time it worked.) 2. A long time friend of my husband, upon hearing I was looking for work, offered me some. (Of course, all of our other friends who heard about my job search simply didn’t have work to offer me) 3. I applied to a government agency (actually about a dozen) and was accepted for a temporary, part-time job Please note none of those were from the classifieds. Also keep in mind I am an able-bodied person with no limitations on my means of transport. It will be an uphill battle to get \*\*Guin \*\* a job but if you wish to lend assistance by all means do so. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/937 "2009-07-20T12:02:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? No, the illegals do not suddenly start living by the letter of the law - one of the reasons they come here is because we have all of these programs that give things to them, such as MediCal, DentiCal, ADC, subsidized housing and all the rest. All they need is forged papers to get them, or the use of someone else’s ID. Or one legal person providing a place where they can all live. Covering all these people who pay little or no tax is killing California. Funny, though - states like Arizona and Texas ALSO have a problem with illegals living within their borders yet THEY aren’t quite the fiscal train wreck California is. So I don’t see where you can blame “the illegals” for the mess. Maybe you should move somewhere other than California? You just don’t seem very happy there. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/938 "2009-07-20T12:05:01Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > > [@Bridget Burke](#): > > > > So–you haven’t qualified for that permanent disability yet, have you? The temporary thing ran out some time ago. > > > > How much do you spend on dogfood every month? > > What does this have to do with anything? These would be the sort of questions you would ask someone who wants the taxpayer to cover their medical bills. Since I pay for insurance thru my husband’s employer, it doesn’t apply to me. You applied for SSDI, correct? Then you asked for some of the taxpayer’s money. Why is OK to grill **Guin** about her situation but not you under those circumstances? If you don’t want to be asked questions then give the money back and be an independent human being. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/939 "2009-07-20T12:10:03Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > According to her, she’s currently self-insured under her parents. So explain again why she must have a job that has health benefits? All I read is that her father was paying for her medication, not that he was paying for _insurance_. When my husband and I were without medical insurance we paid out of pocket for his medications, that doesn’t mean we were _insured_. Do you grasp the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/940 "2009-07-20T12:29:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Funny, though - states like Arizona and Texas ALSO have a problem with illegals living within their borders yet THEY aren’t quite the fiscal train wreck California is. So I don’t see where you can blame “the illegals” for the mess. > > Maybe you should move somewhere other than California? You just don’t seem very happy there. Don’t some of California’s fiscal problems stem from Proposition 13, which put a cap on property taxes? I found lots of pro sites, from the usual conservative jerkoffs. So, here’s an opinion piece from [The Huffington Post](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/byron-williams/aspects-of-proposition-13_b_240239.html). > [@](#): > > In last week’s column, I referred to one of the problematic aspects of the “People’s Initiative to Limit Property Taxation,” more commonly known as Proposition 13, citing it as contributing to California’s ongoing deficit challenges. In doing so, I received a plethora of e-mails and phone calls accusing me of advocating that seniors lose their homes. > > It has long been considered the third rail of California politics; the emotion that surrounds it provides a fortress of invincibility. But Prop. 13 in its present form is one of the major impediments to the state finding answers to its seemingly intractable financial problems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=48)