# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1061 "2009-07-21T00:40:50Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I said you were sitting on the top of your OneDumbFuck totem pole. That’s different. I’m gonna have to ask for a ruling by the judges. The judges say no, as I was the one who provided the artistry. The judges are torn, though, as to whether you were just trying to ride my coattails or actually take credit for my intellectual property. Come to think of it, either way you’re depending on me and my intellectual property to make you look good. I will admit, given your limitations I’ve mentioned, that’s a not-stupid thing for you to do. Baby steps, yes, but there may be hope for you yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1062 "2009-07-21T00:46:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The judges say no, as I was the one who provided the artistry. The judges are torn, though, as to whether you were just trying to ride my coattails or actually take credit for my intellectual property. Come to think of it, either way you’re depending on me and my intellectual property to make you look good. I will admit, given your limitations I’ve mentioned, that’s a not-stupid thing for you to do. Baby steps, yes, but there may be hope for you yet. Isn’t there a gay couple threatening the meaning of the word marriage somewhere? I’d hate to divert you from your true calling. Now be a dear, and hush up for a bit while the grown-ups talk, kay? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1063 "2009-07-21T00:53:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Isn’t there a gay couple threatening the meaning of the word marriage somewhere? I’d hate to divert you from your true calling. > > Now be a dear, and hush up for a bit while the grown-ups talk, kay? Translation: **Lobohan** ain’t got shit. But thanks for initiating the exchange with me in this little aside and then running away while trying to insinuate that I’m the one who is responsible for the diversion. See, when you don’t try, you really are funny. (Laughable, actually, but as you say, let’s move on.) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1064 "2009-07-21T00:55:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Translation: **Lobohan** ain’t got shit. > > But thanks for initiating the exchange with me in this little aside and then running away while trying to insinuate that I’m the one who is responsible for the diversion. > > See, when you don’t try, you really are funny. (Laughable, actually, but as you say, let’s move on.) I wasn’t initiating the exchange. You were getting on a tangent and I was commenting on it. If you wanna talk about something pull up a topic, anything at all and I’ll be happy to duel you about it. Just don’t choose something we agree on. I’m not sure what that would be, but you can’t be wrong about _everything_. Care to talk about healthcare in the context of this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1065 "2009-07-21T01:26:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It is. In our entitled society where we think that everything is a right we don’t realize that, but historically very few people have had good health for extended stretches of time. Good health IS a luxury, that’s not a statement of ideology, it’s a statemnt of practicality. Hell in order to not wreck my knees due to foot pronation I bought some orthotics. I opted for the cheap ones at 70, more than twice the price of the shoes they are in. I could've gotten the custom ones for like 600. Bottom line is no matter how healthy you are, you can always be healthier, and at a certain point medical care MUST be rationed otherwise everyone will think it’s the state’s obligation to spend billions to keep them alive and feeling spry for 400 years. Well, that’s true, and I agree with you there. But this guy was implying that it a priviledge to be healthy at all. It had a very, “screw 'em, let the peons go to hell” tone. Hell, if you’ll recall – was it last year, or the year before – that boy and his sister who received critical care through SCHIP, and spoke publically about it. Then the right went apeshit harassing him and his family. Oh, here we go: [Graeme Frost](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Frost): > [@](#): > > Graeme suffered a brain stem injury and his sister Gemma suffered a cranial fracture from a car accident. Graeme and Gemma received treatment for their injuries under the SCHIP program. In the radio address, Graeme spoke on the importance of the SCHIP program. President Bush vetoed the expansion of SCHIP on October 3, 2007. In the radio address Graeme said “…if it weren’t for CHIP, I might not be here today…We got the help we needed because we had health insurance for us through the CHIP program. But there are millions of kids out there who don’t have CHIP, and they wouldn’t get the care that my sister and I did if they got hurt. … I just hope the President will listen to my story and help other kids to be as lucky as me.” IIRC, the Freepers posted their home address. [Sliming Graeme Frost](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/opinion/12krugman.html) [The Swift-Boating of Graeme Frost](http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1670210,00.html) (BTW, when my sister and I went to private school growing up, but my parents are by no means wealthy. We didn’t even own our own house until I was about 10 years old.) Sickening. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1066 "2009-07-21T02:47:43Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > There are plenty of stories out there about those who cannot buy insurance for anything but the most exorbitant premiums because of their medical circumstances. Since their inability to get insurance is directly tied to the reasons why they need it in the first place, why is their inability “temporary”? Or do you not believe that such people exist? What led up to their being unable to buy anything but very expensive private policies? Are they complaining that they have to stay in a job they hate in order to hold onto a group policy that will cover them? Were they born with expensive health issues that their parents feel the taxpayer should cover? See, if you ignore all of the touchy feely stuff and start looking at the back stories and the facts, you generally find out that the bottom line with these folks is that they made choices that were counter to being responsible for oneself. Such as ditching a “boring” job that had group coverage or deciding that getting pregnant at 16 sounded like a good idea. I’m sure there are folks who are in financial trouble due to medical expenses and it actually isn’t their fault at all. What I don’t believe is that they make up anything near the majority. And I am getting very tired of supporting every person that demands that I do so. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1067 "2009-07-21T02:50:32Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And I am getting very tired of supporting every person that demands that I do so. Why is that my problem? My taxes aren’t going up. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1068 "2009-07-21T02:53:19Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What led up to their being unable to buy anything but very expensive private policies? Are they complaining that they have to stay in a job they hate in order to hold onto a group policy that will cover them? Were they born with expensive health issues that their parents feel the taxpayer should cover? > > See, if you ignore all of the touchy feely stuff and start looking at the back stories and the facts, you generally find out that the bottom line with these folks is that they made choices that were counter to being responsible for oneself. Such as ditching a “boring” job that had group coverage or deciding that getting pregnant at 16 sounded like a good idea. > > I’m sure there are folks who are in financial trouble due to medical expenses and it actually isn’t their fault at all. What I don’t believe is that they make up anything near the majority. And I am getting very tired of supporting every person that demands that I do so. Wait. Aren’t you the silly bitch that was on public assistance? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1069 "2009-07-21T02:54:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > See, if you ignore all of the touchy feely stuff and start looking at the back stories and the facts, you generally find out that the bottom line with these folks is that they made choices that were counter to being responsible for oneself. Such as ditching a “boring” job that had group coverage or deciding that getting pregnant at 16 sounded like a good idea. You “generally find” that, do you? Where do you “generally find” it? Show me some figures that correlates these bad choices with problems affording health care. Give me a breakdown of the circumstances of people who declare bankruptcy due to health-related costs. Or does “generally find” mean “talking out my ass about something i don’t have a clue about”? > [@curlcoat](#): > > I’m sure there are folks who are in financial trouble due to medical expenses and it actually isn’t their fault at all. What I don’t believe is that they make up anything near the majority. And I am getting very tired of supporting every person that demands that I do so. Even if the current proposals on the table don’t improve health care in the US very much, if they make assholes like you more unhappy, they will at least have served some purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1070 "2009-07-21T02:58:59Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What led up to their being unable to buy anything but very expensive private policies? Are they complaining that they have to stay in a job they hate in order to hold onto a group policy that will cover them? Were they born with expensive health issues that their parents feel the taxpayer should cover? > > See, if you ignore all of the touchy feely stuff and start looking at the back stories and the facts, you generally find out that the bottom line with these folks is that they made choices that were counter to being responsible for oneself. Such as ditching a “boring” job that had group coverage or deciding that getting pregnant at 16 sounded like a good idea. > > I’m sure there are folks who are in financial trouble due to medical expenses and it actually isn’t their fault at all. What I don’t believe is that they make up anything near the majority. And I am getting very tired of supporting every person that demands that I do so. Oh really? Let’s see some stats, sugarbritches. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1071 "2009-07-21T03:08:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, I admit that I had to wait until Amnesty and the NACARA law to get a green card to get a driving license and file taxes to get a return. Before that, my workplace took all taxes and I never got any of it back when I was an Illegal. You were illegal, and still would be apparently if the bleeding hearts hadn’t pushed for amnesty, and you are telling me how this country should be run? And as an illegal in Arizona how many years ago, you are telling me how things are now in California? > [@](#): > > There is indeed darkness in not realizing that a system that is driving families into bankruptcy is not acceptable when those kind of bankruptcies are virtually unheard off in other developed nations. You are telling me that no one goes bankrupt in other developed nations? Or is it that you just believe that no bankruptcy could possibly be because people make stupid and/or selfish choices? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1072 "2009-07-21T03:13:15Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I’m sure there are folks who are in financial trouble due to medical expenses and it actually isn’t their fault at all. What I don’t believe is that they make up anything near the majority. And I am getting very tired of supporting every person that demands that I do so. You were already given a cite that says that 62% of bankruptcies in 2007 were for health care, and the people who were in that situation had large debts and had to mortgage their homes. We’re talking educated, middle class people who had the wherewithal to buy a home. All you have is your “belief” that those people must somehow be to blame for their own misfortune. That’s a sickeningly callous attitude, with absolutely no basis in fact except your own feeling that everyone is getting something for nothing (except you, of course). You’re 20 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag, and no thinking person has any use for your fact-free opinions. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1073 "2009-07-21T03:17:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Useless retort. Well, that shows how little you know about things like this - you don’t just look at the bare fact that some other country has a UHC to “prove” whether or not it would work in the US. > [@](#): > > That 100 number was just rhetorical. You said that you felt that 100 families were enough to justify the US spending billions of tax dollars on an experiment. It doesn’t matter if the number was rhetorical or not since it indicates that you think that making the majority pay (and perhaps suffer) to elevate a very few is a grand idea. > [@](#): > > In reality the number of families is much larger as it is clear your cite is not properly dealing with the studies that point to health care cost as the main reason why many are going into bankruptcy. It doesn’t occur to you that those studies might be the result of bias pushing an agenda? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1074 "2009-07-21T03:24:50Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It doesn’t occur to you that those studies might be the result of bias pushing an agenda? Offer a countercite, or a cite discrediting the study, or STFU. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1075 "2009-07-21T03:25:33Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It doesn’t occur to you that those studies might be the result of bias pushing an agenda? If they present figures that don’t accord with you own head-in-your-ass conclusions, they must be biased, right? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1076 "2009-07-21T03:35:23Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You were already given a cite that says that 62% of bankruptcies in 2007 were for health care, and the people who were in that situation had large debts and had to mortgage their homes. My point exactly. You can show her a million cites and she’s just going to ignore all of them and all of your other “facts”…because she’s playing the part of “I’m always right and you’re always wrong. No. Matter. What”. It’s a common part for those who are fishing only for attention and reactions and to stir people up and keep the flames going. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1077 "2009-07-21T03:36:36Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > You certainly did, you addle-minded cow. Again, in your own fucking words: Ah! Another one who thinks that insults and swearing are good debate tools! > [@](#): > > This isn’t a bar-room chat where you can just pretend you didn’t say something you clearly did. It’s right there - your own stupid words. Just because you don’t get something doesn’t make it stupid, dear. I said that far too many parents feel free to have children without worrying much about whether they can afford them, because they know there are many government programs out there that pay for this, that and the other thing for children. This is not the same thing as saying “More free shit = more mewling bastards”. Heck, if nothing else I didn’t say anything about whether or not the parents were married or not. > [@](#): > > Not really, but then again, I wasn’t the one who was making the asinine assertion in the first place. That was all you. Well, you were the one trying to use that cite to prove something it obviously doesn’t. > [@](#): > > - you assert a direct relationship between birth rates and government services nope > [@](#): > > - I provide evidence which indicates in fact an _inverse_ relationship between birth rates and government services nope > [@](#): > > Don’t like my evidence or the conclusions I draw there from? Fine. Provide some of your own, then. Enough of your unsupported, horseshit, paranoid ramblings about welfare cheats bringing down the Republic or making UHC in the US unfeasible.\* Put up or shut up. (I know, I know - you’ll do neither.) Since I am neither paranoid nor rambling, and I haven’t said that welfare cheats are bringing down the Republic, I don’t know what it is you want me to provide evidence for. As for UHC in the US being unfeasible, the fact that the only evidence folks like you point to is “it works in other countries” means I don’t have to provide an argument, since you are already defeating yourself. > [@](#): > > \*The one thing on which you and I agree is that unless illegal immigration is controlled, UHC and other social services are unsustainable. However, I’ve a feeling that even if the borders were shut as tightly as your ears and eyes, you’d still be opposed to those services “on principle”. Oh, so it’s ok with you to assume that illegals are a big tax drain, but it couldn’t be possible that people born here are too? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1078 "2009-07-21T03:43:31Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > My point exactly. You can show her a million cites and she’s just going to ignore all of them and all of your other “facts”…because she’s playing the part of “I’m always right and you’re always wrong. No. Matter. What”. It’s a common part for those who are fishing only for attention and reactions and to stir people up and keep the flames going. Yeah, I was about to post something similar. She doesn’t care about cites, or proof, or anything except her endless misery, caused by all the people that she perceives to be taking her money and therefore causing her life to suck. Show her a rock-solid cite, and she’ll claim it’s biased. Use logic on her, and she’ll throw illogic back at you and act like she’s said something deep and profound. She will keep doing this _forever_. You will never convince her that anything she said isn’t God’s own truth. Never. Ever. Never. It’s not worth trying, trust me. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1079 "2009-07-21T03:46:35Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Yeah, I was about to post something similar. She doesn’t care about cites, or proof, or anything except her endless misery, caused by all the people that she perceives to be taking her money and therefore causing her life to suck. Show her a rock-solid cite, and she’ll claim it’s biased. Use logic on her, and she’ll throw illogic back at you and act like she’s said something deep and profound. She will keep doing this _forever_. You will never convince her that anything she said isn’t God’s own truth. Never. Ever. Never. It’s not worth trying, trust me. The only difference in opinion I have is that she’s not _really_ this way, but merely a troll seeing how far she can push it, how many people she can piss off, how many fights and trainwrecks she can cause, etc. I cannot fathom how any actual person can be this willfully ignorant in the face of many posts and people going “HELLO? You’re wrong. Here’s proof right here.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1080 "2009-07-21T03:48:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > As for UHC in the US being unfeasible, the fact that the only evidence folks like you point to is “it works in other countries” means I don’t have to provide an argument, since you are already defeating yourself. In the sense that they’re wasting their time trying to reason with you instead of with people who might actually see reason, yes, they’re certainly defeating themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=55)