# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1141 "2009-07-21T16:47:58Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Oh boy, I just now saw the part where **curlcoat** claimed that her $10k of credit card limit is an excellent “reserve” in case she ever has a big medical emergency. HAW, HAW, HAW! First of all, the idea that having a high credit card limit is a good “reserve” for emergencies, and second, the idea that $10k would likely cover a major medical emergency. Pardon me… I have to find something to wipe my eyes, I’m laughing so hard. Heck, I have a credit card with a $50,000 limit that I kept for true medical emergencies. It wouldn’t have covered any major surgeries. ETA: “Kind of” creepy? I think we’re well into full-blown psychic detective creepiness. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1142 "2009-07-21T16:48:33Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Ah! Another one who thinks that insults and swearing are good debate tools! That’s not how I started off, you shit-brained mouthbreather. _You_ were the first one to throw out insults in our exchange in this thread, in your typical smarmy fashion. > [@](#): > > Just because you don’t get something doesn’t make it stupid, dear. **I said that far too many parents feel free to have children without worrying much about whether they can afford them, because they know there are many government programs out there that pay for this, that and the other thing for children.** This is not the same thing as saying “More free shit = more mewling bastards”. Heck, if nothing else I didn’t say anything about whether or not the parents were married or not. Again, you are evidently far too retarded to even understand what you yourself say. When someone says that “more X happens because of more Y”, where both X and Y are continuous variables, in statistical terms they are asserting that a direct relationship exists between X and Y. In the case of your argument [_sic_], X = “having children” and Y = “government programs”. If this were true, then birth rates would be highest in those countries with advanced social welfare programs. However, as I showed earlier, the US has a birth rate _39.6% higher_than the European Union - which has 200 million more people than the US at a similar level of economic development, though with far more extensive social programs, including UHC. This is in fact evidence of an _inverse_ relationship between X and Y, where “_less_ X happens because of more Y”. Looking at the rest of the world, it can be seen that the world’s highest birth rates are found in the most impoverished and desperate nations. > [@](#): > > Since I am neither paranoid nor rambling, and I haven’t said that welfare cheats are bringing down the Republic, I don’t know what it is you want me to provide evidence for. As for UHC in the US being unfeasible, the fact that the only evidence folks like you point to is “it works in other countries” means I don’t have to provide an argument, since you are already defeating yourself. Here’s a lovely slice of disingenuity and imbecility. You’re being disingenuous when you say, “I haven’t said that welfare cheats are bringing down the Republic”, because while you didn’t use that _exact_ phrasing, you certainly have expended an inordinate amount of energy denouncing “welfare cheats” as being both a major cause of present fiscal difficulties as well as a reason for the unfeasability of UHC in the US. You’re being an imbecile when you assert that the fact that UHC works in other countries means nothing with regards to whether or not it would work in the US. It may not be conclusive evidence in favor of UHC in the US, but it certianly indicates a likelihood that it would. Put another way, if UHC _didn’t_ work in those other nations, are you telling me that you wouldn’t take that as evidence to support your position? Why can’t you at least be honest and admit that you’re against UHC, no matter what evidence and arguments are produced to support its passage? > [@](#): > > Oh, so it’s ok with you to assume that illegals are a big tax drain, but it couldn’t be possible that people born here are too? The people who are born here might possibly be a “big tax drain” (I don’t accept that that is necessarily the case), but even if they are, they’re US citizens and thus legally equal members of the same society of which you also belong (despite your juvenile protestations). And again, you continue to show more of your trademark ignorance here. Try googling “illegal immigration Europe” some time before you spout off about why UHC wouldn’t work in the US. Spain and Italy, especially, have severe problems with illegal immigration, and yet still manage to provide UHC for their inhabitants. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1143 "2009-07-21T16:49:40Z")
There is a story on CNN right now that addresses the issues of this thread: Should people help the uninsured? It starts with a woman who was laid off and then found out she had breast cancer. She’s currently $20,000 in debt and can’t pay for medical care. Anyone want to guess who pays? No doubt this story will be repeated throughout the day, or you can probably find it on the CNN website at some point. (I’d provide links, but I’m working and need to get back to the program I’m writing.) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1144 "2009-07-21T16:54:35Z")
> [@leander](#): > > I think one of the main disconnects here is that you have some people on one side arguing that there are certain real conditions that merit a sympathetic view of universal healthcare, and others who are suggesting that liars and fraudsters such as \*\*Guin \*\*are making it impossible to judge who is entitled and who is not. And so long as people like \*\*Guin \*\*exist it will be very, very hard to judge whether such a system is worth the risk of conartists abusing it even when there are so many people who are well deserving. I think the main disconnect is selfish cuntsocks who would kill the program even if it could be demonstrated that the vast majority of people on it were there due to real and unavoidable conditions. I’m constantly amazed that there are so many assholes who would, quite literally, prefer that people die rather than have access to decent medical care. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1145 "2009-07-21T17:11:11Z")
There is NO WAY those against UHC want us deciding the issue based on who comes off as more honest, sincere, and likable. The ugliness of curlcoat, Carol Stream, Crafter Man, and Rand Rover alone could make an entire continent vote against their wishes just out of spite. That’s how bad you all come across. So, you really really really REALLY don’t want this to be about personalities. This must be the best you all can do when it comes to persuasiveness. This is your good side! Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1146 "2009-07-21T17:22:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Or try this one - since we don’t charge on our cards very often, if hubby and I had a big medical bill, we could charge over $10,000 between my Mastercard and his VISA, which doesn’t even count his Amex, or our savings. Is it now unfashionable to have those sorts of reserves in case of a problem? You don’t _know_ from big medical bills. My dad spent a month in the hospital - most of it in intensive care - while they tried to keep him from dying from complications of an infection in his colon.\* The total hospital bill was over $500,000. That’s half a million dollars. Could you put that on your credit cards? I didn’t think so. \*He takes good care of himself and had no reason to anticipate this crisis. It was a surprise to everyone, including his doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1147 "2009-07-21T17:30:56Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > You don’t _know_ from big medical bills. My dad spent a month in the hospital - most of it in intensive care - while they tried to keep him from dying from complications of an infection in his colon.\* The total hospital bill was over $500,000. That’s half a million dollars. Could you put that on your credit cards? I didn’t think so. This is the exact problem with curlcoat: there are things in heaven and earth that are not dreamt of in her philosophy. To her, $10,000 is enough buffer for an emergency illness or injury. In her world, no one should ever have to ask for help for anything from the government (except her). If you get sick or hurt and can’t afford treatment, it’s your fault. If you go bankrupt, it must be because you were a profligate spender, and couldn’t be due to misfortunes outside your control. She has zero compassion and her imagination only conjures scenarios wherein the person suffering is to blame for that suffering and/or is a lazy scammer or illegal immigrant or pregnant teen. No amount of cites, statistics, personal anecdote, or analogy can penetrate her utterly solipsistic insistence that the world is as she believes it to be. This is why, as Idle Thoughts keeps pointing out, we will never convince her. She is immune to reality. I’m not sure why she is this way. Maybe she’s a troll. Maybe she just lives a very sheltered life, tinged with paranoia about the world full of people outside who are trying to get something for nothing. In any case, I highly doubt anything we say will have any effect. Fortunately, she doesn’t vote, so she’s just so much annoying, ignorant chatter on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![jormundgondir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@jormundgondir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jormundgondir)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1148 "2009-07-21T20:23:25Z")
I only made up up through page 25 of this excellent cross-section of the dope: Has anyone _yet_ had the decency to call poor DocCathode an indolent and morally bankrupt leech sucking from the parched veins of our beleaguered upper class? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1149 "2009-07-21T20:29:34Z")
Hey, Rand, we’re taking back our land. No more eminent domain, so you have to pay a toll for every person’s property you cross. At a density well over 1 per mile, that should be interesting. And that school where you got your education? You need to pay for its construction yourself, now. Actually, all of them from kindergarten through grad school. After all, you are a proud alumnus, right? Also, if you are ever the victim of a crime, you are on your own. No, I mean you’re on your own. We have cops for us, because we supported UHC. But none of them work for you. Suck it up & take the loss like a man. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1150 "2009-07-21T20:40:39Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Hey, Rand, we’re taking back our land. No more eminent domain, so you have to pay a toll for every person’s property you cross. At a density well over 1 per mile, that should be interesting. > > And that school where you got your education? You need to pay for its construction yourself, now. Actually, all of them from kindergarten through grad school. After all, you are a proud alumnus, right? > > Also, if you are ever the victim of a crime, you are on your own. > > No, I mean you’re on your own. We have cops for us, because we supported UHC. But none of them work for you. Suck it up & take the loss like a man. **Randy** bailed on this mess back on page 11. Guess he’s glad all his pals are doing his cause so much good! ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1151 "2009-07-21T21:15:12Z")
Woah! When was there an explosion of posts? Last I saw (yesterday) this thread was only in the high teens of pages. What the fuck happened? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1152 "2009-07-21T21:16:24Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > What the fuck happened? **curlcoat** happened. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1153 "2009-07-21T21:20:55Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > But two years ago she admitted she was on Medicaid. How did she qualify? This was already explained to you. If you are uninsured and have an emergency hospitalization for a life-threatening illness/injury, and meet certain, more relaxed income standards, Medical Assistance will cover the cost of that hospitalization and care and procedures performed during that hospitalization _only_. This coverage is date restricted, beginning at the time you are brought in through the ER (a requirement to qualify) and ending at your time of discharge. No follow-up care is covered, no medications are covered, no physical therapy or rehabilitative services are covered. It’s a one-shot deal to try to prevent people from dying at home because they don’t go to ERs when their appendices are about to burst or, as in my case, their pancreas is inflamed and eating itself alive, or they’re vomiting up blood or having grande mal seizures, but know that going to a hospital could mean tens of thousands in dollars of bills that they cannot pay and/or would devastate their family or future or both. If you want to be covered for anything else, you must go through the (time-intensive, exhaustive and invasive) process of applying for the normal program of Medical Assistance. As a single, childless person, you will **not** qualify, regardless of income, regardless of reliance upon other assistance programs (TANF, food stamps, Section 8, etc.) unless you have been officially labeled as disabled or have some (but, oddly, not all) forms of cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1154 "2009-07-21T21:25:06Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > **curlcoat** is apparently under the impression that the SS she is drawing now is going to equal the amount she put in. She doesn’t grasp the fact that over time she can easily draw more than she had paid in. Not if we’re lucky. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1155 "2009-07-21T21:37:33Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Since embryos are genetically screened before implantation, a child conceived through IVF is less likely to have a genetic illness than one conceived through intercourse. Argument from ignorance doesn’t serve any purpose. Doesn’t work for you either, since I wasn’t talking about genetically transmitted disease. > [@](#): > > Yes, childhood cancers are entirely irresponsible. Diabetes is entirely irresponsible. I personally could have surely done something to avoid developing two autoimmune disorders. Wishing harder, I suppose. Sitting back and expecting someone else to take care of it is irresponsible. How many people blither into baby-making without a clue as to what they would do if said baby had something wrong with it? How many decide they “can’t afford” COBRA when they get laid off, as they drive about in their $40,000 SUV? Or don’t think twice about carrying thousands of dollars in credit card debt at all times? These are all irresponsible choices that people make every day, and just because it is a medical issue that finally tips them over the edge doesn’t mean that there is necessarily anything wrong with healthcare in the US. > [@](#): > > And yet, according to you, developing a condition that will prevent one from being able to get health insurance _is_ a decision one can make whenever one feels like it, or is, at least, more in one’s control, somehow, than becoming disabled. I have never said anything remotely close to that. What I have said, and what you willfully misinterpret, is that it is extremely irresponsible to expect that the taxpayer will cover all of your (generic your) medical expenses if you have done zip to try to pay for/plan for them yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1156 "2009-07-21T21:37:35Z")
> [@villa](#): > > **curlcoat** happened. The (new) topic with the most replies became the “I hate children” one only because she posted 340+ posts in it alone. Most of it was people arguing with her throughout the whole thing. And she still got the last word in that topic. She’ll probably have the last word in this one too, becauseshe never stops replying as long as people are replying to her. ETA [Referring to this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=512715) Don’t read unless you have a hell of a lot of time to spare and a good forehead protector from how many times you’ll be slapping it. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1157 "2009-07-21T21:43:49Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > This was already explained to you. If you are uninsured and have an emergency hospitalization for a life-threatening illness/injury, and meet certain, more relaxed income standards, Medical Assistance will cover the cost of that hospitalization and care and procedures performed during that hospitalization _only_. This coverage is date restricted, beginning at the time you are brought in through the ER (a requirement to qualify) and ending at your time of discharge. No follow-up care is covered, no medications are covered, no physical therapy or rehabilitative services are covered. > > It’s a one-shot deal to try to prevent people from dying at home because they don’t go to ERs when their appendices are about to burst or, as in my case, their pancreas is inflamed and eating itself alive, or they’re vomiting up blood or having grande mal seizures, but know that going to a hospital could mean tens of thousands in dollars of bills that they cannot pay and/or would devastate their family or future or both. > > If you want to be covered for anything else, you must go through the (time-intensive, exhaustive and invasive) process of applying for the normal program of Medical Assistance. As a single, childless person, you will **not** qualify, regardless of income, regardless of reliance upon other assistance programs (TANF, food stamps, Section 8, etc.) unless you have been officially labeled as disabled or have some (but, oddly, not all) forms of cancer. But I don’t understand. She got a Medicaid benefit but she was not ON Medicaid? Explain how this is even possible. (I understood all the previous posts to this effect prior to this one–I’m just pretending to be a clueless, heartless, thoughtless, citeless, brainless right-wing nutjob, or do I repeat myself?, in order to expedite this thread and produce the umpteenth explanation of this simple point. I think umpteen is the number we’re all striving for, isn’t it?) ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1158 "2009-07-21T21:48:15Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You do realize that you just did to him what you’re claiming he did to you, right? More egregiously hilarious hypocrisy from you. You never disappoint. You’ll have to point out where you have mistakenly decided that was hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1159 "2009-07-21T21:48:21Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Sitting back and expecting someone else to take care of it is irresponsible. How many people blither into baby-making without a clue as to what they would do if said baby had something wrong with it? How many decide they “can’t afford” COBRA when they get laid off, as they drive about in their $40,000 SUV? Or don’t think twice about carrying thousands of dollars in credit card debt at all times? These are all irresponsible choices that people make every day, and just because it is a medical issue that finally tips them over the edge doesn’t mean that there is necessarily anything wrong with healthcare in the US. How many indeed. Do you have any stats? Or are you assuming the worst of everyone again? [Read this article](http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-10-12-cancer-costs_n.htm) and tell me if you would be able to “plan ahead” for a type of cancer whose medications cost $10,000 per month. PER MONTH. One in four cancer patients have spent all of their savings. Why? Because, for instance, late stage cancer treatments can cost $25,000 out of pocket. I hope that you and your husband have planned for such a contingency. A year of meds could cost you $120,000 (if you live that long). You do have that saved up, right? Right? I hope it doesn’t happen to you, but I fear that the only way you’d learn some compassion is if it did, and you were forced into poverty or bankruptcy through no fault of your own. > [@](#): > > What I have said, and what you willfully misinterpret, is that it is extremely irresponsible to expect that the taxpayer will cover all of your (generic your) medical expenses if you have done zip to try to pay for/plan for them yourself. Who said anything about “expecting”? No one “expects” to get cancer, or to find out that their health insurance won’t pay for all the treatments. You can plan all you want, but I don’t know too many people whose planning was adequate to predict an expense like that. Try for a fucking minute putting yourself in someone else’s place, then read your own words and see how utterly compassionless and divorced from reality they are. Fat chance. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1160 "2009-07-21T21:51:57Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You’ll have to point out where you have mistakenly decided that was hypocrisy. He pigeonholes people behind the Orange Curtain. You pigeonhole him as a one of those narrow-minded people from that area who pigeonholes other people. And so it goes. But I don’t expect you to recognize your own hypocrisy. If you could, your post count would be significantly lower. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=59)