# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1281 "2009-07-22T22:54:14Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Apparently it doesn’t matter to you that there is a possibility that a majority of those folks are in that situation because they choose to be. The _possibility_ matters to me. However, the _fact_ that there are people who cannot afford health care because they cannot afford insurance matters _more_. Think of it this way: there’s a _possibility_ that gold coins will fly out of my ass. However, the _fact_ that shit is the last thing that came out matters more. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1282 "2009-07-22T22:56:59Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > …the last number I saw (I think $65,000) to raise a kid to 18 years. .. When was the last time you saw? (A pretty good general question for you, but I’m using it specifically here.) You really think a parent need spend only about $3,000 per year to raise a kid, and everything above and beyond that is, what? Money spent on luxuries? Which orifice did you pull that number out of? Your credibility was zero, and sinking rapidly. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1283 "2009-07-22T23:00:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… would you have an objection if every state had a UHC plan for its citizens? I still wouldn’t like it; the best solution is a 100% free-market system. But it would be _ **far** _ better than a (single) federal program. At least I would be free to move to a state that had a program I deemed acceptable, or at least tolerable. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1284 "2009-07-22T23:03:19Z")
Try $118,000 to $250,000. [Cite.](http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles/family/kids/tlkidscost.asp) ETA: For the cost to raise a kid to age 18, that is. Here’s another [calculator:](http://www.babycenter.com/cost-of-raising-child-calculator) $266,000. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1285 "2009-07-22T23:03:46Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Obviously if I am unconscious, the EMTs take the responsibility I can’t exercise. If I am conscious and feel that I don’t need help, I can tell them so and they must leave me alone. That’s not what **Broomstick** said. Emergency personnel (EMTs responding to a call or doctors in the ER) are obligated to treat you, regardless of your ability to pay. Your state of consciousness isn’t an issue. > [@curlcoat](#): > > And, as I have said, I didn’t take any of it. It’s been amply demonstrated that the SSI benefits that you receive are paid for by other people, not by the money you contributed in the past. And don’t assume that you paid your way with those contributions. I assume you’re no longer paying into the system if you’re on SSI. Try adding up the amount of money you’ve paid into Social Security, and compare it to the sum of the benefits you’ve received so far _plus_ the benefits you can expect to receive if you attain a normal lifespan. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1286 "2009-07-22T23:21:34Z")
Heh. Yeah, the oooonly way that anyone could ever have a $100,000+ medical bill is cancer. My son’s $120k hospital bill was for pneumonia. He wasn’t premature or anything. Just unlucky. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1287 "2009-07-23T00:04:38Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > My son’s $120k hospital bill was for pneumonia. He wasn’t premature or anything. Just unlucky. In **curlcoat’s** universe, that is equivalent to being a shiftless bum. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1288 "2009-07-23T00:12:42Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > Hang on… If I remember correctly from when I had a corporate AmEx card, the only thing corporate about it is the name on the card. I was still entirely responsible for any charges incurred. AmEx billed _me_, and they would have come after _me_ if I hadn’t paid. I suppose I could have kept using it after I left that job, not that it would have occurred to me to try. Well, I suppose that’s possible - where I used to work, though, any corporate credit cards were canceled as the former employee went out the door the last time. As always, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1289 "2009-07-23T00:19:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > > > My son’s $120k hospital bill was for pneumonia. He wasn’t premature or anything. Just unlucky > > In **curlcoat’s** universe, that is equivalent to being a shiftless bum. Yeah, why doesn’t your son get a fucking job already and pay his own way? Who cares how old he is, he’s obviously going to continue leeching resources from society now that he’s used to being coddled by the system of rewarded laziness we’ve created. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1290 "2009-07-23T00:45:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You and your exaggerations lead me to believe that the number you meant to type was $1 million, right? Correct. (Damn typos!) > [@](#): > > Which of course is far more than the last number I saw (I think $65,000) to raise a kid to 18 years. HOLY SHIT! When did you see THAT? 1968? Raising a kid is a six-digit cost, you moron. > [@](#): > > OTOH, don’t you think it would make sense to have a couple of employed people with at least one with group insurance, some savings and not a lot of debt before you have such an expensive addition? Or do you think it’s a better idea to just pop them out and hope God will provide, ala the Duggars? Actually, the Duggars BOTH worked outside the home and saved their money before Mrs. Duggar turned his vagina into a clown car, and Mr. Duggar still works his ass off and I _think_ he’s got group insurance… they have a shit load of kids but they _aren’t_ on welfare and aren’t the sort of irresponsible you bitch about. I question their wisdom in having so many kids, but if they can take care of them it’s not my place to judge. Try an example that actually supports your argument. Anyhow - it is ENTIRELY possible to be employed full time and NOT be offered insurance by your employer. Yes, savings and low debt are preferable, but you can _start_ that way and then have parents lose their job, or an accident happens, or whatever, and that starts the downward slide. > [@](#): > > And how many of those folks are there out there? Who planned and saved and still ended up “driving a 10 year old Chevy that belches smoke”? Well, it’s a Ford, not a Chevy, and it doesn’t belch smoke but I’m still driving my 12 year old pickup and I did get laid off… thank Og we had savings and no debt or we’d be bankrupt instead of merely poor. So that’s two of us, right here. > [@](#): > > Do you realize that because there are so many bleeding hearts like you, it appears that no one has ever bothered to look into _why_ people fall on hard times, other than whatever the final straw was? I know why people fall on hard times… and I know damn well that even with the best of plans, most responsible people, and careful foresight people can STILL get the rug pulled out from under them. > [@](#): > > They have access, they just can’t or won’t pay for it. And you have no desire to find out which it is. Apparently it doesn’t matter to you that there is a possibility that a majority of those folks are in that situation because they choose to be. Um… no, I don’t care _that_ much. I don’t like to kick people when they’re down. If they’re responsible they’ll pull themselves back up _with some help._ ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1291 "2009-07-23T00:50:37Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Ah, so then you are advocating a socialist society, where everyone is completely equal - same housing, same vehicles, same income, etc? Of course not - just that everyone has _at least subsistence_ level of housing, food, transportation (which may well be public transit), and medical care. I have NO objection to people working their ass off an purchasing _better_ than the minimum for themselves. So - as an example - if you’re single and unemployed you can have a 10x10 studio apartment via the government, but if you want more than that YOU have to pay for it. I don’t know too many people who wouldn’t want more than a 10x10 cell to live in, which should be incentive enough for the vast majority to get off their ass and do better than that. > [@](#): > > Snort. Apparently to you no one can get rich without being evil. I think it’s _possible_… but why do you care? Don’t you maintain you’re middle class? (You’re not, but I’ve given up trying to convince you you’re a rich bitch) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1292 "2009-07-23T00:52:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think it’s _possible_… but why do you care? Don’t you maintain you’re middle class? (You’re not, but I’ve given up trying to convince you you’re a rich bitch) Really? I think she’s lower middle class or possibly broke. She just sounds that way to me. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1293 "2009-07-23T00:53:02Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I still wouldn’t like it; the best solution is a 100% free-market system. But it would be _ **far** _ better than a (single) federal program. At least I would be free to move to a state that had a program I deemed acceptable, or at least tolerable. OK, fair enough. Is a state based UHC system (systems, actually, since there would be 50) something you could regard as a compromise you can live with, as something between our current system, which so many are dissatisfied with, and a Federal UHC, which you clearly find abominable? Personally, I could live with either a Federal OR a State based UHC, though I have MANY concerns about how such a program would be implemented. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1294 "2009-07-23T00:55:53Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Really? I think she’s lower middle class or possibly broke. She just sounds that way to me. Well, yeah, that’s possible. She’s clearly clueless about her own household finances, or even where the monthly checks she gets comes from. I dunno, her husband might have brains enough to keep them doing well, but clearly if it wasn’t for him she’d be in the gutter as she just don’t comprehend how the world works. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1295 "2009-07-23T01:00:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, yeah, that’s possible. She’s clearly clueless about her own household finances, or even where the monthly checks she gets comes from. > > I dunno, her husband might have brains enough to keep them doing well, but clearly if it wasn’t for him she’d be in the gutter as she just don’t comprehend how the world works. She’s just so gleeful about having someone to stomp on. It’s characteristic of a lot of people (like my in-laws) who want desperately to feel superior to _someone_, _anyone_ because their lives are such miseries. RR sounds like someone who has never been poor and has gotten every break in the world. curlcoat sounds like someone who is so embittered they lash out at anyone they think they can hurt or whom they perceive as possibly vulnerable. Carol is a bored housewife. Crafter Man is a rageaholic with delusions of grandeur. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1296 "2009-07-23T01:07:55Z")
Actually, a lot of the “poor people choose to be” attitude is whistling past the graveyard. If poverty can come on the back of random accidents, then THEY might actually be poor someday. If poverty is entirely the fault of the poor, then THEY just won’t make any mistakes or poor choices and therefore they’ll never be poor. They have to keep the idea that a single accident or illness could put them on the street as far away from their minds as possible. They can’t cope with the possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1297 "2009-07-23T01:11:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > OK, fair enough. > > Is a state based UHC system (systems, actually, since there would be 50) something you could regard as a compromise you can live with, as something between our current system, which so many are dissatisfied with, and a Federal UHC, which you clearly find abominable? > > Personally, I could live with either a Federal OR a State based UHC, though I have MANY concerns about how such a program would be implemented. I suppose a state-based system could be seen as a compromise. On the one hand, a government would be controlling your healthcare. This would appease the people with socialistic mindsets. On the other hand, people would have a choice, which would appease the liberty-minded. If for example, you live in a state that has horrible healthcare, and healthcare is extremely important to you, you can consider moving to another state that has better healthcare. Each state would be free to enact any system they want, including no government system. Some people might say, “What if I don’t want to move?” My response: People move all the time, from state to state, for various reasons (different job, family, etc.) Heck, I personally know people who moved out of their state simply due to their draconian firearm laws. If good healthcare is a very high priority for you, and your state’s healthcare sucks, you _will_ figure out a way to move. If you don’t move, then it simply means healthcare is less of a priority than other things in your life. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1298 "2009-07-23T01:13:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… would you have an objection if every state had a UHC plan for its citizens? > > That’s what Canada does - they have UHC at the province level. Would that be acceptable to you? And the ability to opt out together and getcher own insurance as well, although I’m not sure how much meaning that has now that our premiums have been eliminated. I suppose doing so would give Alberta’s libertarian ideologues - both of them - the warm fuzzies, but dropouts are rare. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1299 "2009-07-23T01:22:23Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Crafter Man is a rageaholic with delusions of grandeur. I’m simply echoing the same sentiments exhibited by many of our founding fathers. Most envisioned a country rooted in individual liberty and freedom. I am confident most would be aghast at idea of the federal government controlling healthcare. The responsibilities and powers of the federal government are few and far between, and healthcare definitely isn’t one of them. That’s why we have states. If the federal government can do anything it wants, as some people in this thread have implied, there would be no reason to have a federation of states. And no reason to have a federal constitution. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1300 "2009-07-23T01:38:31Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’m simply echoing the same sentiments exhibited by many of our founding fathers. Most envisioned a country rooted in individual liberty and freedom. The same founding fathers who limited voting to 21+ year old white male property owners? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=66)