# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1481 "2009-07-25T03:49:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I love the myth that the rich don’t pay taxes. In reality, the top 1% of income earners pay some huge percentage of taxes (I forget, something like 60-70%). I didn’t say all of them. Let me rephrase: have you ever had a client that most people would consider wealthy, who paid no federal income tax in any one tax year? Yes, or No? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1482 "2009-07-25T03:51:14Z")
**curlcoat** , you click the little Multi Quote button on every post that you want to reply to. It will turn red, to indicate that that post is marked. Then when you hit the regular Reply button, all of the posts that you have multi-quoted should have their quoted material show up in the reply box. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1483 "2009-07-25T03:52:00Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > In other words, you are selfish. You value certain things (i.e., spending time with family, enjoying your job) over producing value for society. I love it when people like you say I am sociopathic and don’t do anything that benefits society when the opposite is actually true. Gee whiz. More Ayn Rand philosophy. What a shock. I am aghast. You have to love a philosophy which accuses someone willing to pony up a little more so that others, not only he, can value their jobs and the families (hereafter referred to as fucking “society”, you pin head) of being the selfish one over the one who’s sole purpose in life is to own the most shit, thus making jobs for the peons to quibble over. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1484 "2009-07-25T03:52:40Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > How many posters on this message board pay no income tax at all? 70%? 80%? 90%? But that’s just hand-waved away. Another very good point. And lots of them are probably “negative taxpayers.” Half of Americans don’t pay taxes at all (or get the EITC), and yet people like Fear Itself is all up in arms thinking that rich people don’t pay taxes. If rich people didn’t pay taxes, then essentially no taxes would be paid, because poor people sure as hell don’t pay them. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1485 "2009-07-25T03:54:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I didn’t say all of them. Let me rephrase: have you ever had a client that most people would consider wealthy, who paid no federal income tax in any one tax year? Yes, or No? Yes, lots of them. For a very obvious and non-abusive reason, which you will probably never figure out. (HINT: The U.S. federal income tax is imposed on “taxable income,” which is the excess of gross income over deductions. If you don’t have taxable income in a year, you don’t pay tax in that year.) ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1486 "2009-07-25T03:56:33Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Gee whiz. More Ayn Rand philosophy. What a shock. I am aghast. > > You have to love a philosophy which accuses someone willing to pony up a little more so that others, not only he, can enjoy their jobs and the families (hereafter referred to as fucking society, you pin head) of being the selfish one over the one who’s sole purpose in life is to own the most shit, thus making jobs for the peons to quibble over. You still don’t understand what money is. I guess you decide at random how much to pay for something (“oh, that’s a nice shirt, I’d be willing to pay $120,00 for that!”). ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1487 "2009-07-25T03:58:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > All I said is that the vast majority of rich people didn’t inherit anything. A factoid which you have apparently pulled straight out off your ass. > [@](#): > > The people that pay me have lots of choices for how they spend their money. They are members of society, and the other people they could give their money to are members of society. > > I could take a job that would allow me to have a more regular schedule, but I choose not to, and I make more for it, which shows that I benefit society more by doing the job I do than does someone who’s not willing to. This response makes little to no sense. This is telling me how your job benefits _you_, not how it benefits society. Obviously, a high income is good for you. How is it good for society? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1488 "2009-07-25T03:59:09Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yes, lots of them. For a very obvious and non-abusive reason, which you will probably never figure out. > > (HINT: The U.S. federal income tax is imposed on “taxable income,” which is the excess of gross income over deductions. If you don’t have taxable income in a year, you don’t pay tax in that year.) Do those rules apply to low income earners as well? You seem to disdain the 50% who pay no taxes, yet according to the same rules, they have no taxable income either. Why don’t your rich clients who avoid taxes get the same snark you aim at “poor” people? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1489 "2009-07-25T04:00:26Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > How many posters on this message board pay no income tax at all? 70%? 80%? 90%? But that’s just hand-waved away. Oh, come on, **Carol**! Did you pull that out of _your_ ass? What makes you think 70-90% of the posters on the SDMB pay no income tax? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1490 "2009-07-25T04:03:04Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > A factoid which you have apparently pulled straight out off your ass. I don’t feel like googling it. But I didn’t just make it up. I’m actually underplaying it a bit (I think I read that only some very low percentage of millionaires ever got even $10,000 from their parents). But just think I’m completely making it up if it makes you feel better. > [@](#): > > This response makes little to no sense. This is telling me how your job benefits _you_, not how it benefits society. Obviously, a high income is good for you. How is it good for society? Other people in society decide how much my services are worth to them, and they pay me accordingly. Look, let’s stop talking about me. Who do you think provides more value to society, Radiohead or the average long-haul truck driver? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1491 "2009-07-25T04:03:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The thing I try to keep in mind about **curlcoat** is that she was the woman who was stunned to learn that there are descendants of slaves still living in America today. It helps me to remember to keep my expectations for her very, very low. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > … Wait, **what**? Did she think that all of the former slaves emigrated to Liberia? And then magically a bunch of other Africans just moved here at the same time, but then most of them randomly decided to swap out their original surnames for European ones? > [@NinetyWt](#): > > [Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498747) where **Omega Glory** pits her. I _think_ the thread he links to in his OP is the one **Miller** refers to. Holy SHIT! _It’s TRUE!!!_ :eek: Follow the links - **curlcoat** _didn’t know_ most African-Americans are descended from slaves! My _god_, just when you think the woman has plumbed the depths of Teh Stupid she opens up a whole 'nother _abyss_ worth! I think [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10600006&postcount=22) is the first in the post series referred to. The whole thread is [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498251). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1492 "2009-07-25T04:05:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Do those rules apply to low income earners as well? You seem to disdain the 50% who pay no taxes, yet according to the same rules, they have no taxable income either. Why don’t your rich clients who avoid taxes get the same snark you aim at “poor” people? What are you talkinga about? I don’t “disdain” anybody, I’m just laying the facts on you. And the reason the bottom 50% don’t pay tax is largely because of refundable tax credits (like the EITC), but deductions do play a part. You are losing track of the conversation. All I said was that lots of my wealthy clients don’t pay tax in a given tax year. You wanted a yes or no, and you got it, the answer’s yes. So what’s your point, bub? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1493 "2009-07-25T04:08:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Holy SHIT! _It’s TRUE!!!_ > > :eek: > > Follow the links - **curlcoat** _didn’t know_ most African-Americans are descended from slaves! My _god_, just when you think the woman has plumbed the depths of Teh Stupid she opens up a whole 'nother _abyss_ worth! > > I think [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10600006&postcount=22) is the first in the post series referred to. The whole thread is [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498251). Look, I have no dog in this fight, I was never aware of the existence of a creature called “curlcoat” until today. But, I read where you said: > [@](#): > > **curlcoat** _didn’t know_ most African-Americans are descended from slaves! and I followed the link and read curlcoat say this: > [@](#): > > First off, I cannot imagine that every black person that calls themself AA is actually a descendant of slaves. Broomstick, do you not see the difference between what you said and what curlcoat said? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1494 "2009-07-25T04:09:37Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Look, let’s stop talking about me. Why? You’re the one using yourself as an example of someone who benefits society. > [@](#): > > Who do you think provides more value to society, Radiohead or the average long-haul truck driver? I’ll assume that Radiohead is a musical group that makes big bucks. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) I have no hesitation in asserting that any long-haul truck driver has more value to society than any musical group. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1495 "2009-07-25T04:10:19Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What makes you think 70-90% of the posters on the SDMB pay no income tax? She didn’t say she thought \*any \*percentage of posters on the SDMB pay no income tax. Reading is fundamental. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1496 "2009-07-25T04:12:37Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Why? You’re the one using yourself as an example of someone who benefits society. > > I’ll assume that Radiohead is a musical group that makes big bucks. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) :eek: Dude. Hie yourself to Youtube and listen up. You are missing out. > [@](#): > > I have no hesitation in asserting that any long-haul truck driver has more value to society than any musical group. Why? How do you define “value to society”? I’ve been defining it by using the only actual measure of value that society has, but you seem to be using a different measure. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1497 "2009-07-25T04:12:53Z")
You know, I provided instructions on how to multi-quote in two separate posts in this very thread. I’m just saying. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1498 "2009-07-25T04:17:47Z")
**Rand Rover** You are saying an individual’s value to society is measured by their income? Am I understanding you correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1499 "2009-07-25T04:18:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > She didn’t say she thought \*any \*percentage of posters on the SDMB pay no income tax. Reading is fundamental. Heh. Speaking of hand-waving. How do you interpret the post, then? Here, I’ll help, so you don’t have to scroll up. > [@Carol Stream](#): > > How many posters on this message board pay no income tax at all? 70%? 80%? 90%? But that’s just hand-waved away. Why do you not read that as **Carol Stream** ’s best guess at the percentage of posters that she believes do not pay income tax? And you’re not off the hook either, pal. If every long-haul truck driver quit their job tomorrow, and every member of Radiohead quit their job tomorrow, which would have the greater impact on society? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1500 "2009-07-25T04:21:21Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Oh, come on, **Carol**! Did you pull that out of _your_ ass? > > What makes you think 70-90% of the posters on the SDMB pay no income tax? No, I didn’t. 47% of the population pays no income tax at all. Another poster gave the links here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11353359&postcount=440](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11353359&postcount=440) I am 100% sure that the percentage of people paying no income tax is much higher on the SDMB than in the general population, given the preponderance of students, and self-admitted unemployed, underemployed, disabled, crazy, and even homeless people this board attracts. Remember, some of these are folks claim they can’t rub together $7.49 (A YEAR) to keep their Charter Membership up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=74) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=76)