# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1501 "2009-07-25T04:24:36Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > **Rand Rover** You are saying an individual’s value to society is measured by their income? Am I understanding you correctly? Look, Jack Batty said this: But you may be right. I enjoy the money I make and I work hard for it … but it isn’t the end-all, be-all of my existance. I don’t predicate every single decision I make on some bottom-line as though that is the definition of my existance. And I said this: In other words, you are selfish. You value certain things (i.e., spending time with family, enjoying your job) over producing value for society. I love it when people like you say I am sociopathic and don’t do anything that benefits society when the opposite is actually true. That’s all I’m saying. I’m confident that the average person with a job that makes enough to pay the surtax adds more value to society than the average person with a job that makes $20,000 per year (for example), but I don’t think there’s some perfectly linear relationship between income and value to society. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1502 "2009-07-25T04:26:12Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > And you’re not off the hook either, pal. If every long-haul truck driver quit their job tomorrow, and every member of Radiohead quit their job tomorrow, which would have the greater impact on society? The subject under discussion is the value to society of the average long-haul truck driver as compared to Radiohead, not the value to society of all long-haul truck drivers and Radiohead. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1503 "2009-07-25T04:27:15Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Suuure you did. Was that before or after you were hurling concrete at a passing car? > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11374443&postcount=42](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11374443&postcount=42) Yes, I did, moron. Because that’s part of my work. I communicate with birth professionals worldwide on a regular basis, and earlier this week took part in a series of international conference calls on various topics in the field. If you read for comprehension, I did not note when the concrete hurling incident happened, it happened that it was a few years back. What, exactly, does one have to do with the other? Oh, wait, absolutely nothing. You’re not even trying. You got called out for snarking a term wrongly. Live with it and STFU. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1504 "2009-07-25T04:28:12Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > She didn’t say she thought \*any \*percentage of posters on the SDMB pay no income tax. Reading is fundamental. > [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, I didn’t. 47% of the population pays no income tax at all. Another poster gave the links here: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11353359&postcount=440](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11353359&postcount=440) > > **I am 100% sure that the percentage of people paying no income tax is much higher on the SDMB than in the general population** , given the preponderance of students, and self-admitted unemployed, underemployed, disabled, crazy, and even homeless people this board attracts. Reading is optional for **Rand Rover**. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1505 "2009-07-25T04:28:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Reading is optional for **Rand Rover**. right, she said it then, but not in the earlier post. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1506 "2009-07-25T04:32:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The subject under discussion is the value to society of the average long-haul truck driver as compared to Radiohead, not the value to society of all long-haul truck drivers and Radiohead. That might be what you _want_ the subject to be. Regardless, I do believe that any single long-haul truck driver is more important to society than the entirety of the musical group Radiohead, as only one of them is going to supply my grocery store with fresh vegetables. I think I’m done with you. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1507 "2009-07-25T04:33:00Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Yes, I did, moron. Because that’s part of my work. I communicate with birth professionals worldwide on a regular basis, and earlier this week took part in a series of international conference calls on various topics in the field. Again, no you didn’t, because there’s no such thing as a “birth professional”. Enough said. Quit making up nonsense, just to advance your own political views. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1508 "2009-07-25T04:34:13Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Again, no you didn’t, because there’s no such thing as a “birth professional”. Tell that to OB-GYNs and midwives. But now you are just trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1509 "2009-07-25T04:34:49Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > [Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498747) where **Omega Glory** pits her. I _think_ the thread he links to in his OP is the one **Miller** refers to. Ah, I remember that now. Sweet Jesus, that was depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1510 "2009-07-25T04:35:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > That might be what you _want_ the subject to be. Regardless, I do believe that any single long-haul truck driver is more important to society than the entirety of the musical group Radiohead, as only one of them is going to supply my grocery store with fresh vegetables. I think I’m done with you. You still haven’t provided us with your definition of “value to society.” I’ve been using society’s definition (i.e., see how much society is willing to pay for something to determine it’s value). Also, you are not looking at the whole picture here. Your grocery store is in no danger of not having vegetables just because one long-haul truck driver quits. And you can’t fire me, because I quit!! I’m done with YOU! so there! ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1511 "2009-07-25T04:36:23Z")
Birth professional is a commonly-used term that refers to obstetricians, labor/delivery nurses, midwives, etc. It’s a handy catch-all term, so that you don’t have to say “obstetricians, labor/delivery nurses, midwives, etc.” every time. I guess you could go with “them folks what birthin’ babies an’ such,” but that doesn’t have quite the same ring. This thread gets weirder every time I look at it. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1512 "2009-07-25T04:37:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You still haven’t provided us with your definition of “value to society.” I’ve been using society’s definition (i.e., see how much society is willing to pay for something to determine it’s value). So the fact that you get paid more than firefighters, police officers, teachers, sanitation workers, and nurses means that society values what you do more than what they do? I think you’re making up society’s definition out of whole cloth so that you can feel like it describes you. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1513 "2009-07-25T04:37:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Ah, I remember that now. Sweet Jesus, that was depressing. What’s really depressing is how you and Broomstick and apparently others have misread what curlcoat said in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1514 "2009-07-25T04:39:36Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > So the fact that you get paid more than firefighters, police officers, teachers, sanitation workers, and nurses means that society values what you do more than what they do? I think you’re making up society’s definition out of whole cloth so that you can feel like it describes you. The fact that I get paid more than any one firefighter, police officer, teacher, sanitation worker, or nurse does indeed show that society values what I do more than what any one of them does. If you disagree, I have a pencil to sell you for $300. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1515 "2009-07-25T04:41:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What’s really depressing is how you and Broomstick and apparently others have misread what curlcoat said in that thread. And yet you are convinced I think rich people never pay taxes! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1516 "2009-07-25T04:41:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The fact that I get paid more than any one firefighter, police officer, teacher, sanitation worker, or nurse does indeed show that society values what I do more than what any one of them does. Then society’s values are fucked up. I would argue that they are much more _important_ to our survival than a tax lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1517 "2009-07-25T04:41:56Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > So the fact that you get paid more than firefighters, police officers, teachers, sanitation workers, and nurses means that society values what you do more than what they do? I think you’re making up society’s definition out of whole cloth so that you can feel like it describes you. I often think that he makes up a lot of things out of whole cloth, including his fab high-dollar lifestyle, but that’s neither here nor there. Interesting tidbit: I clicked the Multi-quote button on a random post earlier, just to confirm that it turned red like I said that it did, and even though I closed the tab I was viewing the Dope in, and then came back to it later, it still remembered that the Multi-quote button was clicked on that post, when I replied to this one. Cool feature! I know I probably seem sort of obsessed with this multi-quote thing, but honestly, we have at least two posters in here, one of whom is supposedly a high-value-to-society tax lawyer who has successfully navigated a lot of higher education, and one of whom has had it explained to her slowly twice now, who can’t seem to figure out how it works. It’s not hard, guys! I just got it to work basically by accident! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1518 "2009-07-25T04:42:14Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, I didn’t. 47% of the population pays no income tax at all. Remember, though, that tax units include families with children, which on below median income scales are much more likely to pay no taxes. > [@](#): > > Remember, some of these are folks claim they can’t rub together $7.49 (A YEAR) to keep their Charter Membership up. That’s true, but I think you’re over-estimating that group. I doubt if there have been over 50 repeat requests, if that many, out of probably 3000 Members and Charter Members. Most who have requested have been a one-time situation. In my recollection, which is probably as weevily as yours. 😉 Honestly, that doesn’t disprove your point with logic. I just don’t see how you can support your point with logic. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1519 "2009-07-25T04:43:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Look, let’s stop talking about me. Who do you think provides more value to society, Radiohead or the average long-haul truck driver? I find this kind of an interesting question: it reminds me of the project we had in fourth grade where we were discussing who to take with us on a trip to Mars. Nobody took the author or the musician – we all took the doctor and the scientist instead. One point the teacher made was to consider what these colonists were going to be doing apart from work. For all the work a person does, there must be enrichment of the soul: it makes us people, not robots. But on balance I’d say the truck driver provides more value to society. S/he is part of the economic base of the country. Without the long-haul truck driver, you do not have cream in your coffee, coffee in your mug, a mug in your cupboard, a cupboard in your kitchen, a kitchen in your house, a house on your street. So maybe the trucker is a bad example. Who provides more value to society, a help desk representative or a Shakespearean actor? Who gets paid more? I can tell you I do both and I only get paid for one. Let’s say you are a tax lawyer. Let’s say you take home $300k/year. You probably don’t, but let’s just say it. You make less money than a really good football player. Is that football player worth more to society than you? Is Paris Hilton, who has as I recall made more money off being Paris Hilton than she ever could have inherited, worth more to society than you? Face it: some people get overpaid, some people get underpaid. If the guy who maintains your work network was paid what he is worth, he’d make more than you. You know, I get where you come from on the libertarian bent. People tend to appreciate things that they have worked hard to achieve rather than the things provided for them. There’s just some things to which I think people should be entitled. Most of those things fall within the realm of assistance: assistance in finding a job, feeding their kids, maintaining a house, keeping the neighborhood safe from crime and disasters like fire and flood, and staying healthy. I’m curious: is your job your way of sticking it to the man, as it were? Do you believe it is a truly philanthropic gesture to help your fellow man avoid having to help his fellow man? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1520 "2009-07-25T04:43:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The fact that I get paid more than any one firefighter, police officer, teacher, sanitation worker, or nurse does indeed show that society values what I do more than what any one of them does. Using that metric, the people really giving value to society are the drug kingpins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=77)