# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/141 "2009-07-17T00:43:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Can someone please tell me what is inherently bad about a big government? Have you ever taken one of those requirements classes like public speaking? The kind of class that everyone has to take but isn’t really that valuable? Did you ever notice how the instructors often take it _really_ seriously? The bigger your government, the more people you have to hire. And all these people with their little rice bowls start thinking they are doing something _really important_. And you get a proliferation of rules and regulations and it becomes the tyranny of the majority, all for your own good, because the people in charge know better than you do. In other words, I don’t trust you not to be a fucking idiot. I don’t want you making rules that reduce my liberty because you think you know better. And it’s always the people who have the dumbest ideas that seem to be the most ambitious – look at the abstinence movement or the anti-drug or anti-sex or whatever other assholes you want to name. I don’t agree with the OP on socialized medicine, but I’d rather err on the side of more freedom than trust other people to think for me (or to decide what _I_ think other people should do). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/142 "2009-07-17T00:47:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Yep. Care to school me? Honestly, I don’t. I started a pit thread in the pit for a pittin’ reason, my pitting friend. I don’t want to debate about it, I want to rant. Some will think it’s because I’m unable to debate about because I’m stoopid. I don’t really care. I want to rant, so that’s what I’m here to do. If I decide to drop some wisdom on your asses, then you should be grateful for it, because I’m mainly here to get my rant on. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/143 "2009-07-17T00:51:51Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So in other words: you have it, I want it, give it to me. THAT, my friend, is barbarism. Instead of just wating out back and jumping me, you get the government to take it from me (since the government can use force while others can’t). FACT: Only stupid people make the _monopoly of force_ argument. We have general prosperity because of the government. Because of the regulations and infrastructure the government provides America is a profitable place to run a business. Accessible health care is infrastructure, like a road or a fiber optic line. It will act as a lever and make the money of big business go farther. But, sadly, you used the _monopoly of force_ argument, so you’re probably too stupid to understand any of this. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/144 "2009-07-17T00:54:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Honestly, I don’t. I started a pit thread in the pit for a pittin’ reason, my pitting friend. I don’t want to debate about it, I want to rant. Some will think it’s because I’m unable to debate about because I’m stoopid. I don’t really care. I want to rant, so that’s what I’m here to do. If I decide to drop some wisdom on your asses, then you should be grateful for it, because I’m mainly here to get my rant on. Translation: I, Rand Rover have strong beliefs. But I base these beliefs on a book I read in junior high, and I can’t really support any of those beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/145 "2009-07-17T00:57:11Z")
Does it matter what the American people want? [The majority of Americans](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/US/healthcare031020_poll.html) are in favor of universal health care over the employer-based system. I know that for those who are against it, this isn’t a compelling argument, but then, who cares what the American people want, when their elected representatives, including Max Baucus, the [Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee](http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2009/06/14/state/hjjajdifjijigd.txt), are bankrolled by the insurance company and health care industries. I’m sure they know what’s best for us better than we do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/146 "2009-07-17T01:03:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So in other words: you have it, I want it, give it to me. THAT, my friend, is barbarism. Instead of just wating out back and jumping me, you get the government to take it from me (since the government can use force while others can’t). LOL … the only reason you HAVE it in the first place is because the government secures your property rights for you. Without the government protecting your sorry ass from the unwashed masses, you would have been eaten by the poor long ago. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/147 "2009-07-17T01:37:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Translation: I, Rand Rover have strong beliefs. But I base these beliefs on a book I read in junior high, and I can’t really support any of those beliefs. If only he’d read the one that involves orcs instead, if only … 😃 CMC fnord! “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” - John Rogers ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/148 "2009-07-17T01:41:44Z")
There’s this blog I read sometimes written by a pretty staunch libertarian. In one of his comments sections, someone asserted that “the market” would eventually pay for health care for the poor; since the demand would be there, **someone** would fill it with supply. Even in that libertarian blog, there were people commenting that it was a naive and probably untrue point of view, AND getting modded up for it. It makes me wonder: who exactly would find it profitable to fill that demand for health care for people who can’t afford it? How would it be filled, and why? To what extent? Why has it not happened already? If it’s because of “government regulation,” which ones, in particular? Of course, if you think that the current system just needs some changes to run infinitely better, I’d like to hear what they are. Some libertarians just turn to “the market” so they won’t have to offer better solutions; those solutions will “just happen.” So I’d be interested in hearing thoughts NOT along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/149 "2009-07-17T01:41:44Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If only he’d read the one that involves orcs instead, if only … > > 😃 > CMC fnord! > “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” - John Rogers Heh. If he had he might have become another Skald the Rhymer. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/150 "2009-07-17T01:46:48Z")
Seriously, **Richard Parker** , you have the makings of a comedy routine. Comic gold that was. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/151 "2009-07-17T01:49:53Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Even if UHC was not under discussion, do you realize just how little it would take for _ **you** _ to lose your health insurance? How many people thought their jobs were safe and then one day they’re not, or ironically a medical condition or an accident leaves you unable to work and after a time COBRA either runs out or you can’t afford to keep it. One day in the hospital can take away years worth of savings. If my experience with a wealthy right-wing opponent to “socialized medicine” is any indicator, I don’t think _any_ amount of reasoned argument will change **Rand Rovers** mind. One of my skills is computer support. I’ve had one particular client for nearly 30 years. A doctor, great guy and I consider him a good friend as well as a client. But he is a very conservative Republican Catholic and believes the polar opposite of pretty much everything I believe in. But we like debating the issues. When I first met him he was just out of residency, and rose in his profession to the point where he was the editor of the journal of his specialty and he built a business employing other doctors and staffing the departments of local hospitals. A solid, respectable small business employing roughly 25 people. Eventually those hospitals were bought by the huge health conglomerates and they destroyed his business that he had been building as a legacy for his family. So he shifted to teaching and lecturing on his specialty. In the meantime, he has had medical problems. Prostate cancer. But he found the best treatment centers with the best outcomes and it looks like he is doing OK. Enough to go back to doing something else he loves - on-field doctor for a professional sports team. And during a game he was injured by two of the players, breaking both legs. What did the sports team do? Why they fired him, of course. Only logical, as it was the only way to avoid paying for his treatment to repair his legs - the healing complicated by the radiation and chemo he was still undergoing for the prostate cancer. And his insurance company? They dropped him. He can’t get any more insurance, as he has this “pre-existing condition”. The cost of his medical treatments are now coming out of his kid’s college fund.. And you know what? I asked him a couple of weeks ago if he liked the proposed health care bill? _“I just don’t like socialized medicine.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/152 "2009-07-17T01:51:13Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > The majority of Americans are in favor of universal health care over the employer-based system. Fine. Then the states should be responsible for it; each state should be free to have its own universal health care program. The federal government should have _absolutely nothing_ to do with it. The federal government does not have the authority to be involved in health care in any way. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/153 "2009-07-17T01:56:39Z")
Too late. I’m pretty sure even people who claim to disapprove of socialized health care would scream bloody blue murder if Medicare went away and they had to actually pay their elderly parents’ medical bills. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/154 "2009-07-17T01:59:50Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > We have general prosperity because of the government. Because of the regulations and infrastructure the government provides America is a profitable place to run a business. LOL. We have general prosperity _in spite of_ the government. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Accessible health care is infrastructure, like a road or a fiber optic line. We all use roads, either directly or indirectly. Health care service is a personal luxury. You can choose to seek health care, or choose not to. If you choose the services of health care, it is _your_ responsibility to pay for it, not your neighbor’s. Why should I be forced at gun point to pay for a personal service for my neighbor? Should I also be forced to pay to get his car fixed? It’s socialism. If you desire socialism, why not move to a socialistic country? Why are you trying to change the U.S. into a socialistic hellhole? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/155 "2009-07-17T02:02:36Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Too late. I’m pretty sure even people who claim to disapprove of socialized health care would scream bloody blue murder if Medicare went away and they had to actually pay their elderly parents’ medical bills. I wish all federally-subsidized medical care would disappear. And I will gladly pay for my parents’ health care bill. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/156 "2009-07-17T02:04:01Z")
So, **CrafterMan** , what do you think of the health care system as it stands now? Do you believe there are any major flaws that need to be fixed? What do you think of the number of uninsured? Is it a problem that needs to be fixed? What do you think of the stories (often used to support the need for overhaul) told about being dropped or denied treatment because of insurance company expense, or not being able to change jobs because of insurance concerns? Do they reflect any major problem that needs to be fixed? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/157 "2009-07-17T02:07:39Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If you desire socialism, why not move to a socialistic country? Why are you trying to change the U.S. into a socialistic hellhole? Because a socialist hellhole is far and away preferable to most people than the nightmare that the free market has inflicted on us. The market had its chance; the market failed. No do overs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/158 "2009-07-17T02:09:39Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > We all use roads, either directly or indirectly. Health care service is a personal luxury. You can choose to seek health care, or choose not to. If you choose the services of health care, it is _your_ responsibility to pay for it, not your neighbor’s. Why should I be forced at gun point to pay for a personal service for my neighbor? Should I also be forced to pay to get his car fixed? > > It’s socialism. If you desire socialism, why not move to a socialistic country? Why are you trying to change the U.S. into a socialistic hellhole? Got kids? See what happens if they contract a life-threatening ailment\* and you exercise your right to not seek healthcare for them. It’s not socialism. It’s _civilization_. Why aren’t you railing against your local fire department? I presume your house has never caught fire. Why should you pay for a personal service for your neighbor? Calling any government spending you disapprove of “socialism” is not a legitimate debate tactic. It’s a Rush Limbaugh move. Do you want to be that guy? \*For the record, I hope this never happens to your children, or anyone for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/159 "2009-07-17T02:10:23Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > We all use roads, either directly or indirectly. Health care service is a personal luxury. You can choose to seek health care, or choose not to. If you choose the services of health care, it is _your_ responsibility to pay for it, not your neighbor’s. Why should I be forced at gun point to pay for a personal service for my neighbor? Should I also be forced to pay to get his car fixed? Agreed. And it’s ludicrous how my tax dollars are being wasted on paying for other people’s children to READ BOOKS–during the most productive hours of the day, no less! By God, imagine how many pairs of sneakers they could make from 8:00 to 3:00! They’d get all the education they’d ever need doing that: learning the value of a day of honest WORK. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/160 "2009-07-17T02:11:39Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Health care service is a personal luxury. There’s something seriously defective about anyone who says this with a straight face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=9)