# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1581 "2009-07-25T17:11:02Z")
Even before the current plan was proposed I was sending them my opinion, I’m still letting them know my opinion, and whether it passes or not I will continue to tell them. Even so, it appears I am just one voice in the multitude. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1582 "2009-07-25T17:20:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Even before the current plan was proposed I was sending them my opinion, I’m still letting them know my opinion, and whether it passes or not I will continue to tell them. Even so, it appears I am just one voice in the multitude. Well good for you then. Seriously, no snark at all. Most people can’t even be bothered to do that, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1583 "2009-07-25T17:50:16Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > From the Duggars’ own site - “After we both heard the testimonies of God’s methods for finances, Michelle & I purposed to become debt-free. As we have chosen to trust Him, I have seen God provide for our family in ways that are supernatural.” A couple of those “supernatural” ways are the TV show and a book they wrote. The site said that they are licensed real estate agents, but between the TV show, the family and all the Bible thumping, how much time do they have to sell real estate? Especially since the kids are apparently home schooled. Could they possibly sell enough to support that many people? What, do you think they appear on TV _for free?_ Don’t you know that they get MONEY for those TV appearances? You do realize that people who write books get money for doing so? If they can obtain sufficient money from their TV show(s) and book(s) that they don’t have to sell real estate where the fuck is your problem with that? They’re still earning enough money to not need welfare, what the hell difference make HOW they earn a living as long as what they’re doing is legal? That, and they clearly know how to live on a budget. That doesn’t hurt, either. > [@](#): > > Wiki says that their income “is mostly derived from the commercial properties they own” but no indication as to when they got these properties or how. Again, as long as their properties were obtained legally what fucking difference does it make? They sold real estate, right? It’s not a stretch to suppose that they acquired these “commercial properties” while they were actively selling real estate. Also, _TV rights and book royalties can also be called “property”_. Sounds to me like they made some investments over the years that paid off. How can you construe that as anything BUT responsible? You wanted to spend your money on medical treatments for a dog. They want to spend their money having and raising children. To each their own. > [@](#): > > [This](http://www.quiverfull.com/articles.php/id20/) article says that Jim Bob “has had various jobs through the years. Michelle jokes that she read a list of the Top 10 worst jobs, and her husband has had seven of them, including insurance salesman and used car salesman.” It then goes on to say a seminar changed their lives to debt free, but is vague as to how they managed to pay off their debt if Jim Bob has had so many bad jobs. Presumably, Jim worked his ass off for many years and they stuck to a budget. Also, you’re assuming “bad job” = “low paying”. You can make a shit load of money off selling insurance or used cars and still not _like_ the job. Seems to me the adult Duggars are quite flexible and resourceful. I don’t agree with a lot of what they do, but they manage to do it while being self-supporting. > [@](#): > > It could be that if their fame died tomorrow and with it the TV show and book sales, they’d be hard up to feed all those mouths. It could be if their fame died tomorrow Jim would go back to selling cars or insurance and even the Mrs. might start selling real estate again. > [@](#): > > And we already have that. Everyone has access to subsistence level of housing, food, transportation and medical care _if_ they haven’t had the ability to work and have an income. No, actually they _don’t_. MAYBE in your strange land of California they do, but that is NOT the norm elsewhere in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1584 "2009-07-25T17:51:16Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Have you called your Senators and Congressman to tell them to vote “No” on the current plan, then? > [@Broomstick](#): > > Even before the current plan was proposed I was sending them my opinion, I’m still letting them know my opinion, and whether it passes or not I will continue to tell them. Even so, it appears I am just one voice in the multitude. > [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Well good for you then. Seriously, no snark at all. Most people can’t even be bothered to do that, it seems. Hope you do the same, even when we take opposite sides of an issue. Wish more people could be bothered to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1585 "2009-07-25T18:02:43Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Listen up, you stupid fucking bitch. I’ve said this twenty times in this thread, and I’ll say it again, just for your benefit. > > All I am saying is that when I do the things that other people characterize as only looking out for myself, or being greedy or selfish, I am really providing value to other peope (no need to use the term “society” here, all that matters is I am providing something to other people that they find valuable). That is the only fucking point I am making, you ignorant ass. I never said that my value to society is measured by my salary. Well, now you’re a liar too: > [@Rand Rover](#): > > So, it’s pretty obvious. I make a lot more money per year than the average person. And the reason is that I provide more value to society than the average person. The details of exactly how I provide that value don’t really matter–the fact that I make more is the only fact you need to know to know that I provide more value. Here is a quote wherein you said exactly that: I make a lot more money per year because I provide more value to society. Ipso fucking facto, you said that your value to society is measured by your salary. And you think I’M the stupid fucking bitch. Look in the mirror today if you want to see one. You can apologize any time you like, but I doubt that you will. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1586 "2009-07-25T18:07:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What are you talkinga about? I don’t “disdain” anybody… So, ‘motherfuckers’ is just a term of endearment, then? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1587 "2009-07-25T18:08:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Hope you do the same, even when we take opposite sides of an issue. Wish more people could be bothered to do that. Yes, I do. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1588 "2009-07-25T18:21:27Z")
Well, **Rand** , let’s go ahead and make it all truckers and all tax attorneys, now who does society value more? Do you think the total compensation received by all tax attorneys exceeds the total compensation received by all truckers? I also love the fact that you mention all of the “barriers to entry” to becoming a tax attorney and then slide right past the fact that your valuation is based, at least in part, on government regulation and interference. You attempt to use free market principles to equate pay to “value” without acknowledging that you do not operate in anything remotely approaching a free market. How much would tax attorneys get paid if anyone could become a tax attorney with the same economic investment that it takes to become a trucker? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1589 "2009-07-25T19:06:14Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Have you called your Senators and Congressman to tell them to vote “No” on the current plan, then? As a matter of fact, I just wrote letters to my Congresswoman/Senators and told them that if they didn’t raise your taxes, I’d fuck them in the ass with your dick. So, either way, you have something to look forward to. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1590 "2009-07-25T20:11:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Let me ask you this–how much value do you think the average long-haul trucker adds to society? Please answer in monetary terms. If the number is in excess of the average salary of a long-haul trucker, please explain the difference. We don’t even have to do math here. Of course the overall value is greater than the average salary. The company that runs the trucks or makes the goods doesn’t employ the trucker simply out of a desire to keep the driver busy. They do it because the profit to be realized by the sale of the trucker’s services, or of the goods in the truck, is greater than what it costs to pay the truck driver. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1591 "2009-07-25T20:31:21Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Well, now you’re a liar too: > > Here is a quote wherein you said exactly that: I make a lot more money per year because I provide more value to society. Ipso fucking facto, you said that your value to society is measured by your salary. > > And you think I’M the stupid fucking bitch. Look in the mirror today if you want to see one. You can apologize any time you like, but I doubt that you will. I don’t know why I’m bothering because you won’t get it, but here goes again. You are talking about some concept called “a person’s value to society.”. You think I am also talking about that concept. But I am not. I am talking about a different concept. I am talking about the value a person provides to society. We are not talking about the same thing. I never said I am of more value to society. I just said I provide more value to society. Also, by “society” I just mean other people. I don’t know what your concept of a person’s value to society even means, but you seem to take it as a person’s worth as a human being. You think I said I am worth more as a human being because I have a higher salary. Nut I never said that. I just said I provide more value to society (meaning other people) than someone that makes less. Doesn’t mean I think I’m worth more as a human being or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1592 "2009-07-25T21:14:00Z")
I’ve long been a fan of subtle distinctions in semantics, but you’ve got me stumped here. What is the difference between “a persons value to society” and “provides more value to society”? I understand how dummy **Rubystreak** doesn’t get the subtle distinction, but I’m smart as all git out, and I don’t see it either. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1593 "2009-07-25T21:14:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I don’t know why I’m bothering because you won’t get it, but here goes again. You are talking about some concept called “a person’s value to society.”. You think I am also talking about that concept. But I am not. I am talking about a different concept. I am talking about the value a person provides to society. We are not talking about the same thing. I never said I am of more value to society. I just said I provide more value to society. Also, by “society” I just mean other people. > > I don’t know what your concept of a person’s value to society even means, but you seem to take it as a person’s worth as a human being. You think I said I am worth more as a human being because I have a higher salary. Nut I never said that. I just said I provide more value to society (meaning other people) than someone that makes less. Doesn’t mean I think I’m worth more as a human being or anything like that. If I may make a little suggestion, you may want to clarify when you’re using _your_ meaning of a word or phrase vs. generally accepted meanings. Just a thought. May make it easier on you. Won’t need to go taking offense whenever someone demonstrates an inability to read your mind and all. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1594 "2009-07-25T21:16:23Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I don’t know why I’m bothering because you won’t get it, but here goes again. You are talking about some concept called “a person’s value to society.”. You think I am also talking about that concept. But I am not. I am talking about a different concept. I am talking about the value a person provides to society. Are you claiming that there is some massive difference, visible for all to see but this stupid fucking bitch, between “a person’s value to society” and “value a person provides to society”? I don’t think so. You’re playing semantic games and contorting yourself to get out of the fact that you equated your value to society with your salary, and when called on it, lashed out and called me some nasty names, and now refuse to admit it or apologize. > [@](#): > > We are not talking about the same thing. I never said I am of more value to society. I just said I provide more value to society. Also, by “society” I just mean other people. No, we are talking about the same thing. I do not agree that you provide more value to society because you make more money. You provide value to the people who pay you. They are not society as a whole. In fact, you provide “value” to a hell of a lot fewer people than I, a police officer, a sanitation worker, or a truck driver, even though we all make less than you. Our services are used by many more people than yours are. The fact that we are not compensated at the same rate does not mean that we provide less value; our clientele does not have as much money as yours. That’s all. Thus, your salary is not an accurate measure of the value you provide to society. I can’t explain it any more clearly than that, though I am absolutely certain you will fail to comprehend this and will dismiss ME as the one being obtuse here. > [@](#): > > I don’t know what your concept of a person’s value to society even means, but you seem to take it as a person’s worth as a human being. You think I said I am worth more as a human being because I have a higher salary. Nut I never said that. I just said I provide more value to society (meaning other people) than someone that makes less. Doesn’t mean I think I’m worth more as a human being or anything like that. Oh, it’s obvious to me that you have no idea what my concept of what a person’s value to society means. You seem to think that salary has more than a sliver to do with value. And no, I patently am not talking about a person’s value as a human being. I’m talking about concretely what they provide, in terms of goods and services, to society, not some amorphous quality of human-ness. But I think you’re just twisting about and trying to distance yourself from the statement you yourself made. I’ll repost it just for fun: > [@](#): > > So, it’s pretty obvious. I make a lot more money per year than the average person. And the reason is that I provide more value to society than the average person. The details of exactly how I provide that value don’t really matter–the fact that I make more is the only fact you need to know to know that I provide more value. You do not provide more value to society because you have a higher salary. Your value to society, and mine, are based on much more than just what you or I make. There are tangible factors that would also need to be considered, as well as some intangibles. You have not made a compelling case that salary should be the sole measure. In fact, you’ve made no argument at all, just insulted and called names anyone who disagreed with you. Still waiting for that apology. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1595 "2009-07-25T21:26:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’ve long been a fan of subtle distinctions in semantics, but you’ve got me stumped here. What is the difference between “a persons value to society” and “provides more value to society”? I understand how dummy **Rubystreak** doesn’t get the subtle distinction, but I’m smart as all git out, and I don’t see it either. Lemme put it to you in dummy-speak: Rand Rover thinks that he provides more value to society because he services rich people, and they can afford to pay him teh big bux. Those of us who provide services to hundreds or thousands of people, regardless of their income level or ability to pay, because our services are essential to the functioning of society as a whole, provide less value to society. How do I know this? He makes more money than we do. Got it now? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1596 "2009-07-25T21:32:51Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Lemme put it to you in dummy-speak: Rand Rover thinks that he provides more value to society because he services rich people, and they can afford to pay him teh big bux. Those of us who provide services to hundreds or thousands of people, regardless of their income level or ability to pay, because our services are essential to the functioning of society as a whole, provide less value to society. How do I know this? He makes more money than we do. Got it now? Well if our services were truly of value, we’d be getting paid more. I meant that sarcastically, but I think that’s what he thinks. Suppose it is an interesting point. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1597 "2009-07-25T21:46:52Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Well if our services were truly of value, we’d be getting paid more. > > I meant that sarcastically, but I think that’s what he thinks. Suppose it is an interesting point. It all depends on who values your services. If rich people value your services, or only a few people are providing your service, then you get paid more. If a lot of poor people derive value from your services, or if a lot of people can do your job, you get paid less. I don’t think that salary is the sole measure of your value to society. If that were true, then Lady Gaga and A-Rod would be providing more value than a doctor who is saving lives on a daily basis, or the President of the United States. Of course, maybe Rand Rover thinks that they do. In that case, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1598 "2009-07-25T22:35:01Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > It all depends on who values your services. If rich people value your services, or only a few people are providing your service, then you get paid more. If a lot of poor people derive value from your services, or if a lot of people can do your job, you get paid less. I don’t think that salary is the sole measure of your value to society. If that were true, then Lady Gaga and A-Rod would be providing more value than a doctor who is saving lives on a daily basis, or the President of the United States. Of course, maybe Rand Rover thinks that they do. In that case, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. And by his standards, once again, Paris Hilton provides more value to society. Hell – I suspect _Perez_ Hilton provides more value to society then!!! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1599 "2009-07-25T22:36:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And by his standards, once again, Paris Hilton provides more value to society. Hell – I suspect _Perez_ Hilton provides more value to society then!!! > > 😉 More than you do, in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Robert\_Pickton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Robert\_Pickton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert_Pickton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1600 "2009-07-25T22:39:01Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Lemme put it to you in dummy-speak: Rand Rover thinks that he provides more value to society because he services rich people, and they can afford to pay him teh big bux… RR is one of the characters Mel Brooks played in _History of the World Part I_. He doesn’t realize he’s the piss boy, holding the piss bucket for Count DeMoney and hoping to become King. The only thing standing between him and his aspirations is the revolting peasants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=81)