# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 92
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1821 "2009-07-28T14:42:29Z")
With your mad people skills, we should be grateful you didn’t take up a career with the diplomatic corps. “Mr. President! Upper Volta has declared war on us!” “(sigh) Let me guess, that’s where we sent **Rand Rover**?” “Yes sir…” ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1822 "2009-07-28T14:45:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Here’s another illustration. If you sell a widget for $2 and I sell a widget for $100, then I have provided more value to society because I provided something that society values at $100 and you only provided something that society values at $2. Substitute services for widgets and that is all I’m saying. Wrong. I may be under-pricing my widget. If I set the price lower than what people are willing to pay, they’re not going to pay me the difference out of the goodness of their hearts. They’ll pay the lowball price and congratulate themselves on getting a bargain. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1823 "2009-07-28T15:03:45Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Here’s another illustration. If you sell a widget for $2 and I sell a widget for $100, then I have provided more value to society because I provided something that society values at $100 and you only provided something that society values at $2. Substitute services for widgets and that is all I’m saying. Unless your widget comes with hidden costs, like causing cancer or deforming babies or destroying the atmosphere, or something. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1824 "2009-07-28T15:05:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > That would be true if it were only poor people who have no savings, but it is also going on in the middle class. Wrong again. What do you think happens to middle class people who have exhausted their savings after losing a job or incurring a catastrophic medical expense? Believe it or not, selling the house and moving someplace cheaper may not be a realistic option - it may put them too far from prospective employers, decent schools, or useful public transportation. They look middle class to you because you’re seeing the stuff they had before things went to shit. > [@curlcoat](#): > > And? We have insurance on both the house and myself. What is your point? This isn’t about you, personally. It’s about imagining how these things impact people who _can’t_ afford insurance. But I understand that you are unable or unwilling to do that. > [@curlcoat](#): > > I said _teens_ picking berries - you know, during the summer for spending money? I suppose they don’t do things like that anymore? As for “real” job, it is the IRS defining, not me. The IRS doesn’t care if your job is “real” or not. They only care about how much money you make. I assure you that if some teenager somewhere manages to make $10,000 picking berries one summer, the IRS expects that kid to file a return and pay income tax. Likewise, if my doctor chooses to spend a year using her skills to provide services _pro bono_, the IRS doesn’t expect her to pay tax on zero dollars just because she rendered professional services. > [@curlcoat](#): > > Shrug. I am unconcerned with what you wish to believe. I have posted more than once that I was simply too busy trying to stay alive to be able to go to college, and once I got on at Aetna, college was no longer necessary. Shrug. Too busy trying to stay alive? Unless you were living in a cardboard box under a bridge, I don’t believe that. People put themselves through school even if it means living in lousy circumstances for a while, if school is important to them. College was no longer necessary after you got the job at Aetna? That just tells me you lack foresight and ambition. > [@curlcoat](#): > > Already did. If you don’t like that one, try researching contract law. Your answer didn’t address the question. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1825 "2009-07-28T16:16:26Z")
Looks like another seven or eight pages stacked up over my three-day weekend. Poke me if I missed anything interesting. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1826 "2009-07-28T16:23:04Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Looks like another seven or eight pages stacked up over my three-day weekend. Poke me if I missed anything interesting. Did you want a sleep aid? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1827 "2009-07-28T16:43:14Z")
In Roverland a parish priest in a small town would have very little value. A teacher making 100 K is providing double the value of one working for 50 K. Just think how much value Madoff was providing. He had to be one of Americas most valuable citizens. What a stupid measure of value money is. Rover is just trying to justify his worth and again fails miserably. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1828 "2009-07-28T16:56:28Z")
In oither news, gonzomax once again misunderstands what someone posts and then takes that poster to task for it, which only serves to show his own idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1829 "2009-07-28T17:16:04Z")
His point is not without merit, however; salary is rarely a good measure of a person’s value to society. Consider the following- in terms of salary, America has a structure which looks like this: NFL quarterback \> American Idol winner \> physician \> attorney \> insurance adjuster \> teacher Yet even you would be hard pressed to defend the notion that their relative values to society aren’t something more like this: physician \> teacher \> attorney \> insurance adjuster \> NFL quarterback \> American Idol winner ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1830 "2009-07-28T17:26:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > In oither news, gonzomax once again misunderstands what someone posts and then takes that poster to task for it, which only serves to show his own idiocy. Everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and is misunderstanding your point, including Maeglin, who has a great deal of expertise in this area. Huh. Isn’t it Bricker that says if enough people tell you you’re drunk, regardless of how you feel, you should probably go lay down? Time to lay down, Mr. Rover. We’re not all too stupid to get your point, honest. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1831 "2009-07-28T17:33:04Z")
You talking to me RNATB? I have no idea what a person’s “value to society” means, so I can’t comment on your post. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1832 "2009-07-28T17:35:57Z")
Please, Maeglin, with all his “expertise in this area,” is being the most ridiculous of you all. He is just insisting that I mean something that I have repeatedly denied meaning. That’s odd. I’m not sure why he would do that. Also, if he’d scroll up he’d see how this whole conversation started. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1833 "2009-07-28T17:41:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please, Maeglin, with all his “expertise in this area,” is being the most ridiculous of you all. He is just insisting that I mean something that I have repeatedly denied meaning. That’s odd. I’m not sure why he would do that. Also, if he’d scroll up he’d see how this whole conversation started. You say you have no idea what a person’s “value to society” is yet you keep using the term. Over and over. I don’t read your mind. I read the words on the page. You are quacking like a duck, no matter how much you endlessly protest to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1834 "2009-07-28T17:45:27Z")
That’s not a duck, that’s a mallard! That’s not wine, its burgundy! Not talking about my value to society, talking about the value I _provide_ to society! When, oh, when, will you cease to misrepresent and mischaracterize my posts! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1835 "2009-07-28T17:48:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You talking to me RNATB? I have no idea what a person’s “value to society” means, so I can’t comment on your post. You’d call it “the value you provide”. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1836 "2009-07-28T17:58:14Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please, Maeglin, with all his “expertise in this area,” is being the most ridiculous of you all. He is just insisting that I mean something that I have repeatedly denied meaning. That’s odd. I’m not sure why he would do that. Also, if he’d scroll up he’d see how this whole conversation started. Let’s refresh his memory, shall we? > [@Rand Rover](#): > > So, it’s pretty obvious. I make a lot more money per year than the average person. And the reason is that I provide more value to society than the average person. The details of exactly how I provide that value don’t really matter–the fact that I make more is the only fact you need to know to know that I provide more value. > [@Rand Rover](#): > > All I am saying is that when I do the things that other people characterize as only looking out for myself, or being greedy or selfish, I am really providing value to other peope (no need to use the term “society” here, all that matters is I am providing something to other people that they find valuable). That is the only fucking point I am making, you ignorant ass. I never said that my value to society is measured by my salary. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Lemme put it to you in dummy-speak: Rand Rover thinks that he provides more value to society because he services rich people, and they can afford to pay him teh big bux. Those of us who provide services to hundreds or thousands of people, regardless of their income level or ability to pay, because our services are essential to the functioning of society as a whole, provide less value to society. How do I know this? He makes more money than we do. Got it now? To which you said, “This is correct.” Now, let’s see if, with all your words in front of him, Maeglin can figure out what the hell you’re talking about, where apparently the rest of us failed so miserably. Except me, I got a “this is correct” along with reams of really nasty abuse from you across 3 threads for my trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1837 "2009-07-28T18:00:09Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Now, let’s see if, with all your words in front of him, Maeglin can figure out what the hell you’re talking about, where apparently the rest of us failed so miserably. In just a few short years, I will be paid to grade awful college student papers. Until then, I think I’ll give deciphering this one a pass. I tried, honest. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1838 "2009-07-28T18:00:59Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > In just a few short years, I will be paid to grade awful college student papers. Until then, I think I’ll give deciphering this one a pass. I tried, honest. You’re just refusing to do it because you’re fat, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1839 "2009-07-28T18:15:57Z")
Hey, don’t assume the worst, **Maeglin** could be lazy! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1840 "2009-07-28T18:17:44Z")
Christ you guys are thick. Return to the widget example. I say that the person that sells a widget for $100 has provided $100 of value to society (assuming buyer and seller are rational actors). Assume this is the only value this person ever provides to society. Now, what is this person’s value to society? I don’t fucking know, the concept of “value to society” is something you guys keep saying, not me, I have no idea what it means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=91) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=93)