# Anything else you motherfuckers need? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231 "2009-07-16T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 93
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1841 "2009-07-28T18:18:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Christ you guys are thick. Return to the widget example. I say that the person that sells a widget for $100 has provided $100 of value to society (assuming buyer and seller are rational actors). Assume this is the only value this person ever provides to society. The price of the widget does not measure the value it provides to society. This has been explained to you ad nauseum. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1842 "2009-07-28T18:20:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Hey, don’t assume the worst, Maeglin could be lazy! Or “poor”, which seems to be the biggest insult **Rand** can muster. Now there’s a guy who “look(s) at a poor person and see(s) someone who can make something of themselves if they have the talent and the drive to do so,” while we liberal douches “see a lump of shit who needs the government to give them a handout or they’ll die in the streets”! They’ll make something of themselves one day…if for no other reason than to get **Rand** to shut up about how lazy and worthless they are. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1843 "2009-07-28T18:20:51Z")
Well, he’s right in one regard, our society values the skills of the salesman above all others. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1844 "2009-07-28T18:31:18Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Or “poor”, which seems to be the biggest insult **Rand** can muster. > > Now there’s a guy who “look(s) at a poor person and see(s) someone who can make something of themselves if they have the talent and the drive to do so,” while we liberal douches “see a lump of shit who needs the government to give them a handout or they’ll die in the streets”! They’ll make something of themselves one day…if for no other reason than to get **Rand** to shut up about how lazy and worthless they are. Please to be posting the cites where I call poor people “lazy and worthless.”. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1845 "2009-07-28T18:34:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please to be posting the cites where I call poor people “lazy and worthless.”. Thanks. Why do you use “poor” as an insult, then? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1846 "2009-07-28T18:39:25Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Why do you use “poor” as an insult, then? I dunno. I like to get my troll on sometimes, I guess. If people expect me to hate poor people or whatever then I like to not disappoint them all the time. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1847 "2009-07-28T18:42:06Z")
Gee, thanks. Damned white of you. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1848 "2009-07-28T18:46:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Gee, thanks. Damned white of you. That’s racist! Or are you trolling? Maybe we need to start a national conversation on trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1849 "2009-07-28T18:47:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Christ you guys are thick. Return to the widget example. I say that the person that sells a widget for $100 has provided $100 of value to society (assuming buyer and seller are rational actors). Assume this is the only value this person ever provides to society. > > Now, what is this person’s value to society? I don’t fucking know, the concept of “value to society” is something you guys keep saying, not me, I have no idea what it means. I don’t think you know what “value” means, either. Despite adopting a veneer of neoclassical economics (rational actors, blah blah blah), you walk right into the value paradox without even touching on marginality. Value theory is very deep and very problematical, your naive assertions nonwithstanding. So it should come as no surprise to anyone that you would boil it down to simplistic propositions to support your delusional beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1850 "2009-07-28T19:05:30Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > I don’t think you know what “value” means, either. Despite adopting a veneer of neoclassical economics (rational actors, blah blah blah), you walk right into the value paradox without even touching on marginality. > > Value theory is very deep and very problematical, your naive assertions nonwithstanding. So it should come as no surprise to anyone that you would boil it down to simplistic propositions to support your delusional beliefs. In other words, you got nothin’. You should keep in mind that I am using this example to argue against the notion that rich people just take from society and then bitch about paying “their fair share” in taxes. I’m just using it to show that people that make money do so in exchange for providing value to the person that gave them the money. Therefore, the more esoteric ideas you allude to are not relevant here. Also, there are more graceful ways for you to admit you didn’t know what I was talking about and bow out of the conversation, but you’ve apparently chosen to show your ass instead. Finally, don’t forget to check out the Chidope 2009 thread in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1851 "2009-07-28T19:07:39Z")
Aw, **Rand**. Just admit that you got pwned by **Maeglin**. It’s OK, hardly anyone is still reading all the way down here on page 37. I won’t tell, I promise. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1852 "2009-07-28T19:11:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > In oither news, gonzomax once again misunderstands what someone posts and then takes that poster to task for it, which only serves to show his own idiocy. Note in post 1804 …"The fact that I make more is the only fact you need to know that I provide more value than you. ’ I suppose the subtilty eludes me. But is appears to be pretty clear. My mistake may have been extrapolating it into the rest of the country. It apparently only refers to you. Be honest. You post deliberately provocative threads in the Pit so you can rattle cages. You are treating the Pit as your game room. But is it too much to expect you to be consistent through a whole thread? I wonder how much of the pablum you spew, you really believe. Sometimes ,I think none. Yet this BS thread will get about 2000 responses. Congtats. That is what you are really doing. But I suggest less sipping on fine scotch before you respond. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1853 "2009-07-28T19:20:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > In other words, you got nothin’. Seriously, are you trolling? Several people have tried to explain to you why you are wrong. It’s not that hard to admit, really. It only stings for a second, and then gratitude for an expanded mind sets in for most, um, rational actors. > [@](#): > > You should keep in mind that I am using this example to argue against the notion that rich people just take from society and then bitch about paying “their fair share” in taxes. I’m just using it to show that people that make money do so in exchange for providing value to the person that gave them the money. Therefore, the more esoteric ideas you allude to are not relevant here. You don’t seem to understand that the terms you use, like “value” and “society” have already established meanings that run counter to the point you are trying to make. Why not just say the above without resorting to waving your big swinging salary around? > [@](#): > > Also, there are more graceful ways for you to admit you didn’t know what I was talking about and bow out of the conversation, but you’ve apparently chosen to show your ass instead. It’s apparent to everyone but you that you are the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and are too immature and insecure to just gracefully admit it, apologize to all the people you insulted, and act like a grown ass man. I know you’re cultivating this persona that your this terribly bratty, mean, rude boy that you think is fantastically amusing and entertaining, but it’s just kind of… sad, really. It makes you look unintelligent and adolescent. Hey, your choice, I’m not trying to insult you, I’m just telling you the truth, for what little it’s worth. > [@](#): > > Finally, don’t forget to check out the Chidope 2009 thread in MPSIMS. This is just hilarious. I would, in fact, love to meet you in person, and since you’re so rich, why don’t you send me a plane ticket? That’s be fantastic, and in keeping with the title of this thread. Then you can see my ass in person and decide if it really is as wide as you’d hoped. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1854 "2009-07-28T19:49:33Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > since you’re so rich, why don’t you send me a plane ticket? That’s be fantastic, and in keeping with the title of this thread. Then you can see my ass in person and decide if it really is as wide as you’d hoped. Fly all of us there! And put all of us up in the Drake! In fact, skip the Dopefest, skip meeting **RR** , and let’s everyone get shitfaced and play blackjack! ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1855 "2009-07-28T19:59:47Z")
In fact, skip the blackjack! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1856 "2009-07-28T20:09:23Z")
> [@Nation](#): > > seems like the majority of people around here are whacked out liberal socialist moonbats that want the gov’t to run every aspect of their lives, want people who went school and got a good paying job to pay for the ones who sit on their asses all day, or work at wal-mart, or the corner 7-11. you know the ones who sit and smoke all day long and bitch about how bad everything is, but too stupid and lazy to do anything about it themselves. > > its pathetic whats happening to this country. we have drowned ourselves with the stupid, idiotic, pussified, ridiculous, moronic political correctness horseshit and we’re soooooooooo afraid of “offending” someone we go to any lengths to prevent it, and attack anyone who makes someone blush. > > its pathetic and embarassing whats happened to us. The rest of the goddamn world is laughing their fucking asses off at us right now for what we have turned into. Ahh, the flag waving macho man shows up. Hey Captain America, plenty of us (myself included) are “good decent loyal Americans” even if we don’t share your charming outlook. Many of us were in the military, some of the people here chose it for a career. We hold down jobs and pay our taxes, and WE don’t ask much in return. We know the difference between “a hand up” and a “hand out”. There IS a difference. As far as who is “pussified”, that’s cheap talk over “teh interwebs”. You have to work harder if you want to impress someone. Go blow smoke up someone else’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1857 "2009-07-28T20:17:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > In other words, you got nothin’. We could play the “in other words” game all night, but you are going to have to raise the ante to keep me interested. You tried to make a very precious distinction between the “value” someone provides through exchange and the person’s “value” in toto. Let’s extend your logic and pretend that a person’s “value” is the discounted sum of his future “values” he accrues by selling widgets. The analysis still falls apart. Look, if you want to have a serious conversation about value theory, I’d be happy to. But yeah, it’s page 37 of a pit thread. But do us all a favor and stop using the term “value to society” when you don’t, you know, mean value to society. It’s in really bad faith. > [@](#): > > You should keep in mind that I am using this example to argue against the notion that rich people just take from society and then bitch about paying “their fair share” in taxes. I’m just using it to show that people that make money do so in exchange for providing value to the person that gave them the money. Therefore, the more esoteric ideas you allude to are not relevant here. Not wanting to pay one’s fair share is a very human and very rational inclination not limited to either rich or poor. Pretty much everyone would be a free rider if he could. The social question though, is whose free riding causes more damage to the general welfare? People tend to feel passionately about this one way or the other, but I do not know the answer to this question. > [@](#): > > Also, there are more graceful ways for you to admit you didn’t know what I was talking about and bow out of the conversation, but you’ve apparently chosen to show your ass instead. I readily admit that I do not know what you are talking about because I do not think you know what you are talking about. Like I said, I read the words on the page. > [@](#): > > Finally, don’t forget to check out the Chidope 2009 thread in MPSIMS. I did, actually, and thanks. I haven’t been to a ChiDope in a _long_ time. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1858 "2009-07-28T20:42:21Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > In fact, skip the blackjack! But I can’t get shitfaced. It screws up my INR. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1859 "2009-07-28T23:13:40Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > But I can’t get shitfaced. It screws up my INR. ☹ Designated driver it is, in case we need to travel elsewhere to get smokes or liver transplants. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231/1860 "2009-07-29T01:49:14Z")
Wow, he actually wants to go to a Dopefest? **Rand Rover** actually thinks people want to meet him? Whoa. ETA: Oh, and before you point it out – yeah, I may live at home and be currently unemployed. But at least people _like_ me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=92) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-else-you-motherfuckers-need/503231.md?page=94)